tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8055026081067946300.post8839662305428459921..comments2023-05-08T01:33:01.273-07:00Comments on The Intelligent Zone: I have a long way to go.Mike is Wrighthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01227754838560886586noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8055026081067946300.post-74523706913797599552009-03-27T18:32:00.000-07:002009-03-27T18:32:00.000-07:00I think this was called:The Creed of the Modern Th...I think this was called:<BR/><BR/><I>The Creed of the Modern Thinker</I> by Steve Turner (i think it goes something like this..)<BR/><BR/><BR/>We believe in Marx, Freud and Darwin.<BR/>We believe everything is OK<BR/>as long as you don't hurt anyone,<BR/>to the best of your definition of hurt,<BR/>and to the best of your knowledge.<BR/><BR/>We believe in sex before during<BR/>and after marriage.<BR/>We believe in the therapy of sin.<BR/>We believe that adultery is fun.<BR/>We believe that sodomy's OK.<BR/>We believe that taboos are taboo.<BR/><BR/>We believe that everything's getting better<BR/>despite evidence to the contrary.<BR/>The evidence must be investigated.<BR/>You can prove anything with evidence.<BR/><BR/>We believe there's something in horoscopes,<BR/>UFO's and bent spoons;<BR/>Jesus was a good man just like Buddha<BR/>Mohammed and ourselves.<BR/>He was a good moral teacher although we think <BR/>his good morals were bad.<BR/><BR/>We believe that all religions are basically the same – <BR/>at least the one that we read were.<BR/>They all believe in love and goodness.<BR/>They only differ on matters of <BR/>creation , sin, heaven, hell, God, and salvation.<BR/><BR/>We believe that after death comes The Nothing<BR/>because when you ask the dead what happens<BR/>they say Nothing.<BR/>If death is not the end, if the dead have lied, <BR/>then it's compulsory heaven for all<BR/>excepting perhaps<BR/>Hitler, Stalin, and Genghis Khan.<BR/><BR/>We believe in Masters & Johnson.<BR/>What's selected is average.<BR/>What's average is normal.<BR/>What's normal is good.<BR/><BR/>We believe in total disarmament.<BR/>We believe there are direct links between <BR/>warfare and bloodshed.<BR/>Americans should beat their guns into tractors<BR/>and the Russians would be sure to follow.<BR/><BR/>We believe that man is essentially good.<BR/>It's only his behavior that lets him down.<BR/>This is the fault of society.<BR/>Society is the fault of conditions.<BR/>Conditions are the fault of society.<BR/><BR/>We believe that each man must find the truth that<BR/>is right for him.<BR/>Reality will adapt accordingly.<BR/>The universe will readjust.<BR/>History will alter.<BR/>We believe that there is no absolute truth<BR/>excepting the truth<BR/>that there is no absolute truth.<BR/><BR/>We believe in the rejection of creeds,<BR/>and the flowering of individual thought.<BR/><BR/><BR/>If chance be<BR/>the Father of all flesh,<BR/>disaster is his rainbow in the sky,<BR/>and when you hear<BR/><BR/>State of Emergency!<BR/>Sniper Kills Ten!<BR/>Troops on Rampage!<BR/>Youths go Looting!<BR/>Bomb Blasts School!<BR/><BR/>It is but the sound of man<BR/>worshiping his maker. <BR/><BR/><BR/>johnnyjohnnynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8055026081067946300.post-77578187542036465152009-03-26T06:14:00.000-07:002009-03-26T06:14:00.000-07:00Johnny, you're so messed up int he head its going ...Johnny, you're so messed up int he head its going to take a better person than me to unravel you. I really hope that one day you get unravelled.<BR/><BR/>And for the record, no, you've not understood a word I've said, and I fear there's nothing I can say that will change that.FiFihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09525757684048252596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8055026081067946300.post-73514109731632481392009-03-25T18:51:00.000-07:002009-03-25T18:51:00.000-07:00"Johnny, don't be so fekkin naive. SO DO HUMANS!!!...<I>"Johnny, don't be so fekkin naive. SO DO HUMANS!!! Even humans with religion."</I><BR/><BR/>I never said that humans do not steal. Neither did i say that humans with religion do not steal.<BR/>And again, i did not say that Christians are without sin.<BR/><BR/>What i did say is that animals do not have morality, and if God does not exist, the morality that man has, is simply a label... an insignificant concept that is equal to a like or a dislike of vanilla ice cream. <BR/><BR/><I>So you say I have no justification for my morals?? Oh how you insult me, but I'll not let that get to me.</I><BR/><BR/>How is this an insult? If there is no God, there is no moral good or bad...things just 'are'.<BR/><BR/><I>The fact is, I want to survive.</I><BR/><BR/>And some people don't. Please justifiy the difference.<BR/><BR/><I>Therefore, I want my species to survive.</I><BR/><BR/>meh... the nazi's wanted the perfect race. The muslim's want all to surrender (to Allah). Heaven's Gate wanted a comet ride... <BR/><BR/><I>To survive one must co-operate with one's community,</I><BR/><BR/>I'll let you in on a little known secret... the survival you speak of, is only temporary.<BR/><BR/><I>which means not stealing from others in my community,</I><BR/><BR/>or being really good at it, and not getting caught....<BR/><BR/>... but that beg's the question, FiFi-- if they haven't gotten caught, and they do what they want, did they actually do anything immoral?<BR/><BR/><I>not killing others in my community who contribute to said community,</I><BR/><BR/>Sorry, but this don't cut it..<BR/>Your statement implies that killing others would be immoral... what about the animals that kill members of their own community? You honestly can't be saying that those animals are immoral.<BR/><BR/><I>and who said community care about.</I><BR/><BR/>no, no, no. Until there is a justification of morals, there can hardly be a justification of caring.<BR/>Remember, the naturalist worldview should be limited to chemical reactions.<BR/><BR/><I>I could write a book about atheist morality, but I won't do that here.</I><BR/><BR/>Again, i did not say that the atheist has no morals, but rather, the atheist does not have a justification that morals exist.<BR/><BR/><I>But believe that I have higher morality than many christians</I><BR/><BR/>That's very possible... maybe even probable. However, the True Christian (tm) is aware that he is a sinner, and has trust that Jesus the Christ has paid for those sins.<BR/><BR/><I>I've known who think they can behave like bastards all week, say sorry on a Sunday and feel all superior about it. In fact, Christians have a free ticket to do what the hell they like and feel justified in doing so because they've said sorry to god about it. Idiots.</I><BR/><BR/>we're all in a growth process. Some are, like you say, thinking they "have a free ticket"... the true Christian will eventually realise this as false understanding (maybe even many times).<BR/><BR/><I>If you really believe atheists have no morality then you're a bigger fool than you come across. You're wrong. FACT.</I><BR/><BR/>I repeat the repetition again and again... i am not saying that the atheist has no morals.<BR/><BR/><I>Atheism has led to tolerance to other social groups,</I><BR/><BR/>Give justification that tolerance is good at all times and all places.<BR/><BR/>In fact, if tolerance is so good (i'm letting it slide that this is a smuggled in, unjustified moral) then why stop at only tolerance of social groups? If tolerance is so good, start giving tolerance to criminals... throw the laws away.<BR/><BR/><BR/><I>and atheism is what has made Britain what it is today. Its not perfect (nowhere is), but I believe its the best place in the world to live at the moment (possible exception of New Zealand).</I><BR/><BR/>Pepsi or Coke? Vanilla ice cream or chocolate?<BR/>America's a pretty good place to live too.<BR/><BR/>However, as i've seen Christian values go downhill in my lifetime, it is my opinion that life in America is not as good as when i was a kid... now, granted, that could very well be the difference of looking at life from kid's eyes vs. an adult's eyes.<BR/><BR/><I>In the UK you can have your own say, and not be persecuted or prosecuted for your views.</I><BR/><BR/>hmmm... so what you are saying is that, if you disagreed with what your Parliment declared, and you publically threatened to kill them, you would not be procecuted? I mean, what better way to say you disagree, than using an uzi on some government officials?<BR/><BR/>FiFi, i realise that this is not the extreme that you mean, but it is the spirit of your thought, taken to an extreme end... but then again, if morals have no justification, then what's to say that an action such as the above, is actually morally wrong?... Just remove the bits of society that disagree and the society that is left over will be much more in agreement.. that, or no one would dare disagree.<BR/><BR/><I>You can be gay and be able to tell your friends about it rather than live in shame for your so-called 'sin'.</I><BR/><BR/>hmmm... are you saying that telling someone that "homosexuality is immoral", is an immoral behavior?<BR/><BR/>Where is the justification that makes being gay, ok, but telling someone it's not ok, is not ok?<BR/><BR/>If there is no transcendent moral law, then both are arbitrary preferences. <BR/><BR/><I>Why then, in America, which has a FAR HIGHER christian population than the UK, is the murder rate several hundred times that of any other country in the world? (Watch Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine)</I><BR/><BR/>What's that you keep telling ME about sources?<BR/><BR/>How many of the murderers were Christians? How many murderers were atheists? How many murderers were sinful humans?<BR/><BR/><I>Where do all these murderers get their morality from?</I><BR/><BR/>Rebellion and/ or rejection of God. <BR/><BR/><I>Or will you just say that they can't really be christians? Who are you to judge that?!</I><BR/><BR/>No, i can't say that they are not True Christians (tm). But i can say that they were not putting their trust in the Lord (if it was, indeed, Christians that were the murderers... well, actually, either way).<BR/><BR/><I>So do you have some idea now what I have against religion? If not, let me know and I'll explain a little further.</I><BR/><BR/>Let's see...<BR/> <BR/>Religions claim that there are morally good things and morally bad things.<BR/>Religions claim people do bad things to other people. <BR/>Religions claim that there is "hell to pay" for doing bad things to other people.<BR/>Religions claim that there are ways of restitution and some form of reconcilliation.<BR/><BR/>Christianity teaches that no human can live a perfectly good life, and that Christ lived that perfect life for us, died for payment of our sins, rose again and promised that we too, are debt free if we trust in Christ.<BR/><BR/>Yep, i think i can see it now, FiFi.. what you have against religion is that atheism can't really determine morally right and morally wrong, but you know it actually exists. <BR/><BR/>God Bless,<BR/>johnnyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8055026081067946300.post-66117810626279340622009-03-25T05:58:00.000-07:002009-03-25T05:58:00.000-07:00"I'm not sure about seals, but apes, meerkats and ..."I'm not sure about seals, but apes, meerkats and wolves steal (food) from each other"<BR/><BR/>Johnny, don't be so fekkin naive. SO DO HUMANS!!! Even humans with religion.<BR/><BR/>So you say I have no justification for my morals?? Oh how you insult me, but I'll not let that get to me. The fact is, I want to survive. Therefore, I want my species to survive. To survive one must co-operate with one's community, which means not stealing from others in my community, not killing others in my community who contribute to said community, and who said community care about. I could write a book about atheist morality, but I won't do that here. But believe that I have higher morality than many christians I've known who think they can behave like bastards all week, say sorry on a Sunday and feel all superior about it. In fact, Christians have a free ticket to do what the hell they like and feel justified in doing so because they've said sorry to god about it. Idiots.<BR/><BR/>If you really believe atheists have no morality then you're a bigger fool than you come across. You're wrong. FACT.<BR/><BR/>Atheism has led to tolerance to other social groups, and atheism is what has made Britain what it is today. Its not perfect (nowhere is), but I believe its the best place in the world to live at the moment (possible exception of New Zealand). In the UK you can have your own say, and not be persecuted or prosecuted for your views. You can be gay and be able to tell your friends about it rather than live in shame for your so-called 'sin'.<BR/><BR/>Why then, in America, which has a FAR HIGHER christian population than the UK, is the murder rate several hundred times that of any other country in the world? (Watch Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine) Where do all these murderers get their morality from? Or will you just say that they can't really be christians? Who are you to judge that?!<BR/><BR/>So do you have some idea now what I have against religion? If not, let me know and I'll explain a little further.FiFihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09525757684048252596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8055026081067946300.post-14524899119357509472009-03-23T18:25:00.000-07:002009-03-23T18:25:00.000-07:00FiFi said,In fact, if you watch a group of social ...FiFi said,<BR/><BR/><I>In fact, if you watch a group of social animals, you'll see that they also have this capability. Look at apes, meerkats, wolves, seals, to name but a few of the thousands of species who manage to prosper in their environment, all without the help of god, or a soul (not that we have either of these things ourselves, except in the sense of their perceptions of the world).</I><BR/><BR/>I'm not sure about seals, but apes, meerkats and wolves steal (food) from each other.<BR/><BR/>FiFi, like i said, "But what i do contend is that the atheist has no justification for morals... and with no justification it boils down to being like a preferrence to a particular soup or candy bar... it's insignificant."<BR/><BR/>johnnyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8055026081067946300.post-70368876479965799842009-03-23T07:15:00.000-07:002009-03-23T07:15:00.000-07:00"But what i do contend is that the atheist has no ..."But what i do contend is that the atheist has no justification for morals... and with no justification it boils down to being like a preferrence to a particular soup or candy bar... it's insignificant."<BR/><BR/>Then I refer you to a previous answer that you don't understand natural selection. <BR/><BR/>Before religion darkened humanity's door, we still had communities who got along, worked together and progressed.<BR/><BR/>In fact, if you watch a group of social animals, you'll see that they also have this capability. Look at apes, meerkats, wolves, seals, to name but a few of the thousands of species who manage to prosper in their environment, all without the help of god, or a soul (not that we have either of these things ourselves, except in the sense of their perceptions of the world).FiFihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09525757684048252596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8055026081067946300.post-71891915590958510192009-03-19T05:46:00.000-07:002009-03-19T05:46:00.000-07:00First FiFi, i was joking around, as indicated by t...First FiFi, i was joking around, as indicated by the wink emoticon and by the laugh out loud (lol) and by the "just teasing".<BR/><BR/><BR/>Second, no, i do not think that religion is needed to be moral.<BR/>God has given morallity to all (in Christian speak, that would be 'written it on our hearts').<BR/><BR/>His Word says that even the unbeliever is a law unto themselves.<BR/><BR/>But what i do contend is that the atheist has no justification for morals... and with no justification it boils down to being like a preferrence to a particular soup or candy bar... it's insignificant.<BR/><BR/>johnnyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8055026081067946300.post-671609524908927492009-03-19T05:22:00.000-07:002009-03-19T05:22:00.000-07:00Johnny, not everybody who has a set of rules or st...Johnny, not everybody who has a set of rules or standards that they live by (that's mostly everybody, btw) attributes those standards to a religion.<BR/><BR/>Most people have empathy and can live an honest and decent life on that.<BR/><BR/>I'm wondering - do you think people need religion to be moral?FiFihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09525757684048252596noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8055026081067946300.post-81139374369060325042009-03-17T19:39:00.000-07:002009-03-17T19:39:00.000-07:00Umm, Mike, i think that "spam by theology web when...Umm, Mike, i think that "spam by theology web whenever a thread i post on is updated" is because of something in your tweb profile options... you can turn it off if you don't want to be notified.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Also, i'm glad to see that atheism is now thinking of itself as a religion.... with all those "commandments" ;) lol just teasing.<BR/><BR/>johnnyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com