Wednesday 27 August 2008

Difficult questions for xians

I came accross this list of devestating questions xians cant answer

5 comments:

Anonymous said...

after the funeral, i'll work on some of these. Most are forms of strawmen.

Spacefoetus, JB, Nick and others have already answer some, if not all of them.

MrFreeThinker said...

From the link-
How come the people who wrote about Jesus, never knew him, but the 12 people who did write nothing?
Perhaps because most of them (except Matthew who did write stuuf) were illiterate.
Isn't sacrificing your only begotten son child sacrifice?
Duh
Why does Jesus never say he was willing sacrificing himself?
Guess he never read the Last supper
The first gospel written was written 70 years after he died.
Even if you go by the liberal late dating-Mark was written 40 years after he died.And we have Paul's epistles predating them.
how come there are seven books attributed to Paul that were written after that? Did he inspire men to write them after he died?
How does he know when they were written? If he does he better tell those conservative scholars who maintain Pauline authorship.
Why are there two different 10 commandments in the Bible?
Huh?

Anonymous said...

Hi Mike,

Yesterday was the funeral home showing for my dad, and today is the funeral, so i'll just work on a couple of these while i have my morning coffee before i have to get ready.

Just so you know, if you disagree with any of the answers or comments, i would like you to feel free to call me on them. I'm only going to give the "short version" of answers, but we can expand on any if you like.

From the link:
God sacrificed himself, to himself, to appease himself, to change a rule that he made in the first place. So he won't have to roast us alive, his beloved creation, for ever and ever. He loves us so much, we cannot even comprehend, but if we don't love him back, he will hasta la vista our soul into the molten lava jaccuzzi for all eternity.

This one here is a strawman, said 'tongue-in-cheek' as an opener to bring people's guard down so that they don't look as closely at the others.

The simple fact is that Jesus was slain before the foundations of the earth... that is to say, before God created, He already know that we would rebel and He already had the plan of Salvation.


Isn't sacrificing your only begotten son child sacrifice?

Again, show that this is a wrongful action for God to do. God, the Creator, is the author of life.

The question is assuming that life is the ultimate meaning, and that God is bound by His commands to us.

Why does Jesus never say he was willing sacrificing himself?

As mrfreethinker pointed out, Jesus did say that He was willing.

How come we don't have any eyewitness account of Jesus? The first gospel written was written 70 years after he died.

Since i'm answering you, and you seem to endorse the claims from the link, then the burden falls on you to show that that is a correct date.

As mrfreethinker pointed out, there are various dates attributed to the Gospels... it would be in the form of a range.
Do you have any idea how they come about those dates?

How come the people who wrote about Jesus, never knew him, but the 12 people who did write nothing?

Since you are endorsing this statement, prove it Mike.

Why did Jesus do the same miracles the other gods did centuries before Jesus did them?

This is honestly the first time i've heard this claim. Could you give some examples?

The first book of the Bible written is by Paul in 56 AD, who says that he never knew Jesus.

ummm, so what !?

Paul didn't claim that the events that he wrote of, happened before Jesus was Crucified. In fact, he mentions it as a past event.

And the only inference you can draw from Paul writing before anyone else, is that Paul wrote first... maybe he had access to a Walmart in order to get paper and pen [sic] while the others had to wait for a local store....

come on Mike.. think a little bit before you blindly follow other people's complaints.


As for Paul knowing or not knowing Jesus, have you even read Acts and the other books that Paul wrote, Mike?

Paul died in 64 AD, during the Neronian persecution, how come there are seven books attributed to Paul that were written after that? Did he inspire men to write them after he died?

The books are from the Letters to the early church communities.

Um, think of it this way... The Diary of Anne Frank was published after Anne's death, does that mean Ms. Frank did not write it?


Why are there two different 10 commandments in the Bible?

Agreed. Yes,there are.

Instead of me parroting what Dr. Cudworth has said, and has been repeated in many commentaries, let me ask you, Mike,
Why do YOU think there are two different 10 commandments?
(i think they are in Ex 20 and Ex 34 but time's short right now for me to make sure)


That's it for now, Mike. I gotta go get ready to support my mom.

I hope you have a better day than i expect to have.

God Bless,
johnny

FiFi said...

Johnny!!!

Firstly, I'm sorry for your sad loss. I hope you're bearing up mate :-)

However, as you've made these statements, I feel unable to contain my comments. I shall begin:

And I quote, "The simple fact is that Jesus was slain before the foundations of the earth... that is to say, before God created, He already know that we would rebel and He already had the plan of Salvation." Johnny, read that to yourself again and tell me with a straight face that you know what you're talking about. The Earth wasn't created by any kind of god, it was formed from the reaction that made the sun, the Earth and the other planets in the solar system. Gravity and kinetic forces over time formed the planets and set us in the orbit in which we spin today. That's all I can say. I can't give you a GCSE in physics within the bounds of this message I'm afraid. And any way, it doesn't dispute the fact of the statement you were responding to, which was, "God sacrificed himself, to himself, to appease himself, to change a rule that he made in the first place. So he won't have to roast us alive, his beloved creation, for ever and ever. He loves us so much, we cannot even comprehend, but if we don't love him back, he will hasta la vista our soul into the molten lava jaccuzzi for all eternity." That is the basis for Christianity after all. I've been one myself and in all honesty, that's it in a nutshell!!

Johnny, when you don't have an answer to something, you simply trot out the old chestnut of, "Since you are endorsing this statement, prove it Mike." Sorry Johnny, you can't prove Cinderella stories. Prove to me that I don't have fairies at the bottom of my garden. Go on!!

"Why did Jesus do the same miracles the other gods did centuries before Jesus did them?" You replied, "This is honestly the first time i've heard this claim. Could you give some examples?" Now Johnny we've talked about this before and there are so many. The great flood (Noah's Ark and all that) was robbed from a much older religion, as were many of them. There was that Greek chappy who was crucified and rose again from the dead. Sound familiar? There are loads, but you just have to go and look for them. But of course you won't want to will you?

This one's priceless though, "Why do YOU think there are two different 10 commandments?" Sorry Johnny, the burden's on you this time. You tell us why there are two?

Anyway, I hope the funeral went as well as can be expected with these things.

Ciao!

Anonymous said...

Fifi said:

Johnny!!!

Firstly, I'm sorry for your sad loss. I hope you're bearing up mate :-)


Thank you. Were doing fine.

And I quote, "The simple fact is that Jesus was slain before the foundations of the earth... that is to say, before God created, He already know that we would rebel and He already had the plan of Salvation." Johnny, read that to yourself again and tell me with a straight face that you know what you're talking about.

Yup. And it (partially) answered the strawman from the link. The link said, "to change a rule that he made in the first place.".
The rule was not changed. It was known before hand.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

(also see Joh 17:24; Eph 1:4; 1Pe 1:20)

The Earth wasn't created by any kind of god, it was formed from the reaction that made the sun, the Earth and the other planets in the solar system. Gravity and kinetic forces over time formed the planets and set us in the orbit in which we spin today.

Well, since you were there, did you happen to take some pictures?
Have you ever listened to scientists? They say stuff like, "we think it happened ..."
or "the current best theory is..."
They talk like that because they know that future discoveries may overturn the current claim.

.... And any way, it doesn't dispute the fact of the statement you were responding to, ... That is the basis for Christianity after all. I've been one myself and in all honesty, that's it in a nutshell!!

No, that is a strawman version in a nutshell. If you think it is an accurate version, then i understand how you could think it false.

Johnny, when you don't have an answer to something, you simply trot out the old chestnut of, "Since you are endorsing this statement, prove it Mike." Sorry Johnny, you can't prove Cinderella stories. Prove to me that I don't have fairies at the bottom of my garden. Go on!!

OK, first off, did either Mike or the writer of the link or even you, give a source that "How come the people who wrote about Jesus, never knew him, but the 12 people who did write nothing?" was a true statement?

Second, how about Peter and Jesus' brother James?

Third, are you saying that you believe that you have fairies at the bottom of your garden?


"Could you give some examples?" Now Johnny we've talked about this before and there are so many. The great flood (Noah's Ark and all that) was robbed from a much older religion, as were many of them.

We have? Ok... well, the link talked about miracles attributed to Jesus, so i was thinking more along the lines of water/wine; fish/loaves; healing and resurrectings.
As far as the flood goes, then you and i are only quibbling about our worldviews and presuppositions.


There was that Greek chappy who was crucified and rose again from the dead. Sound familiar?

No it does not sound familiar. Would you be so kind as to at least present this "chappy's" name?

There are loads, but you just have to go and look for them. But of course you won't want to will you?

You tell me. Does my track record speak for anything? Mike has posted several links, and aside from the zietgiest movie, i think i've taken a look at most if not all of his links.

This one's priceless though, "Why do YOU think there are two different 10 commandments?" Sorry Johnny, the burden's on you this time. You tell us why there are two?

huh? I agree that there are two (some Christians disagree, and i think i can even discuss these with them). I understand it one way, but i'm allowing Mike to present his case.

Anyway, I hope the funeral went as well as can be expected with these things.

Thank you. It went better than i expected.


In one of the other posts you mention about "being anon".
Feel free to contact me on

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/

my screenname is xtreem5150ahm

please follow forum rules and we can chat without clogging up Mike's blog.


johnny