Monday, 2 March 2009

Jebus is the sun/son

Xians often say that jebus if the light of the world. What is the light of the world I hear you ask? Well the sun. So xians are saying that jebus is the sun. In other words xianity is no different than all the other sun god religions such as mithraism and astrology.

16 comments:

Sir-Think-A-Lot said...

Actually Jesus was the one who first said he was the light of the world.

But really he couldnt have been speaking metaphoricly?

johnny said...

Hi Mike,

Here are a few passages that are relevant. If you are serious and honest, then the best thing to do, is to read the surrounding verses in order to get the context.
(ps these are from the KJV. Some people find the KJV difficult to understand. If that's your situation, let me know and i would be happy to provide some other versions and offer help.)

Joh 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.


Joh 9:5 As long as I (Jesus) am in the world, I am the light of the world.



Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.



Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hid.
Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.





2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.





God Bless you Mike.
johnny

Anonymous said...

Say Johnny why don't you quit trying to talk down to the resident prodigy? He can read the KJV just fine. Besides you are just proving his point. Why do you silly Xians have so many versions?

Sacker X

Dr. Evil said...

Sacker X...

Because our language, as well as understanding of Greek and Hebrew keep changing?

But it's not like you fricken' care, or anything...

Anonymous said...

Dr. Evil

So you are saying there are different versions of the Bible because of our language and our understanding of the original languages is constantly evolving?

In that case how can you be sure that your current understanding of the original languages is accurate enough to ensure your knowledge contains the sum total required to ensure your Xian salvation? Pretty important stuff from a Xian viewpoint.

"But it's not like you fricken' care, or anything..."

Dismissive language has no place in this discussion. We are, in the view of you Xians, discussing eternal outcomes. That should not be taken lightly.

You do not know me. You do not know how earnest I am or not. Why not take a little time and get to know me before you judge me.

"Fricken'?" Are you kidding me. How childish is that. If there is a God he knows what you meant. We all know what you meant. How about trotting out your Bible?

Matthew 15:10-11

And he called the people to him and said to them, "Hear and understand: it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person."

Have your words defiled you?

Walk lightly good doctor.

Sacker X

Dr. Evil said...

"So you are saying there are different versions of the Bible because of our language and our understanding of the original languages is constantly evolving?"

Yes. I am. Do you want me to fricken' say it slower and fricken' use only one syllable words?

"In that case how can you be sure that your current understanding of the original languages is accurate enough to ensure your knowledge contains the sum total required to ensure your Xian salvation? Pretty important stuff from a Xian viewpoint."

It's not fricken' hard. There's fricken' modern variants of these languages, plus we've got some fricken' copies of the original fricken' documents still around. I'm going to concede fricken' ignorance of the fricken' specifics here. However, that doesn't excuse any laziness on your part.
And who said I was a fricken' Christian?

"Dismissive language has no place in this discussion. We are, in the view of you Xians, discussing eternal outcomes. That should not be taken lightly.

You do not know me. You do not know how earnest I am or not. Why not take a little time and get to know me before you judge me."

If you're going to play the fricken' "get to know me before you judge me" card, then you better make sure that your fricken' words elsewhere don't fricken' betray you. If you were truly fricken' interested in honest fricken' dialogue with Christians, then you wouldn't be so fricken' disrespectful as to refer to them as "Xians" or some other variant. Also, your comment in the other post about the 747 leaves a fricken' shotgun slug in your fricken' foot...
"I brought the fiddle. Now are you Xians going to dance for me?" Sounds like you just want to fricken' mess around with Christians rather than engage in productive fricken' conversation with them.

"""Fricken'?" Are you kidding me. How childish is that. If there is a God he knows what you meant. We all know what you meant. How about trotting out your Bible?

Matthew 15:10-11

"And he called the people to him and said to them, "Hear and understand: it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person, but what comes out of the mouth; this defiles a person."

Have your words defiled you?"

Aside from the fricken' fact that I'm fricken' role-playing here (You've never seen the fricken' "Austin Powers" movies I fricken' take it?), and the other fricken' fact that I've never fricken' claimed to be a fricken' Christian, you've got a fricken' onus of proof to show that the fricken' passage in question is referring to fricken' swear words and not the fricken' totality of my fricken' actions.

Sir-Think-A-Lot said...

Really theres no verse the in the Bible condeming 'swear words.' They are just words. It's how you use them thats important.

Or to put it another way: the idea that simply using certain words is somehow sinfull is a bunch of fucking bullshit(yes I said it).

Anonymous said...

"I'm going to concede fricken' ignorance of the fricken' specifics here. However, that doesn't excuse any laziness on your part."

Seems a bit lazy on your part. Sounds a bit echolalian to me. You are not really sure what the truth is, but you know someone who you think does so that is good enough for you. Are you a Christian? I apologize I just assumed you were. You are right I was being a bit cavalier with the Xian stuff. I was just sticking to the tone of Mr. Wright's Blog. My question for you is if you are a Christian would not it be better for you to know as many of the details as you can. I am familiar with what the Christians call the Great Commission. If you are a Christian should not you be witnessing to me instead of insulting me and calling me lazy?

Again with the semi-swear word. I could care less if it was in a pop culture movie with no redeeming value. Do you have children? Would you let your child use that language? I personally do not think it is befitting of a Christian by Christian's standards. Some Christian may deny it, but I believe they would on sandy ground.

Role playing? What role are you playing? Why would you play a role in an important conversation like this one?

Sacker X

Anonymous said...

STAL I do think you are being a little cavalier with your swear word. I think that was bit over the top. I respect you though, however, this Dr. No cat seems a bit unhinged and indulgent. I will look for a better reply to your statement.

Sacker X

Sir-Think-A-Lot said...

I do think you are being a little cavalier with your swear word. I think that was bit over the top.

Yea, it was a bit cavalier. But that was the point.

I generally dont swear simply because its not really necessary. And I do think that using swear words for the express purpose of offending people is wrong(this includes continuing to use them after somebody has told you it offends them, or using them around somebody you know is offended by them). But that doesnt make the words themselves wrong, but rather the fact that I'm trying to offend people by using htem.

johnny said...

Anonymous ... Sacker X,

I'm not trying to talk down to anyone. I've had conversations with other people that said that they felt KJV was difficult for them. Things like 'suffer' 'charity' 'fear' have different meanings than usage today.--- i had been hoping that Mike would join in his own discussion.

The reason there are so many versions is because (as was pointed out) languages change. According to Dr. Robert Stein in his Biblical Hermeneutics class (which i haven't yet completed), different versions have been translated based on a sort of "sliding scale" depending on the translators intentions... on the two ends of the sliding scale are word-for-word and meaning-for-word... some translations are more literal, but lose out on some of the meaning due to cultural and language gaps, while others are more paraphased to try to convey the meanings (but then there is more chance to be subject to the translator's "feelings").

Sacker x said, "In that case how can you be sure that your current understanding of the original languages is accurate enough to ensure your knowledge contains the sum total required to ensure your Xian salvation? Pretty important stuff from a Xian viewpoint."

One way is in studying the Word and comparing it to what has been taught ABOUT the the Word (both Jewish and Christian history). Also, just like any written text, context plays a role.

But the main factor is, if it is true, the Holy Spirit will allow a correct understanding.


johnny

Anonymous said...

Johnny I appreciate your feedback. You and STAL seem to give positive feedback. Now this Dr. No guy that is another thing altogether. I do not have time now, but I shall return.

Sacker X

Anonymous said...

I think, regrettably, that Sacker X has a point regarding offensive language. John Piper recently used an unsavory term and later apologized for it. Wayne Grudem in a letter to John Piper wrote the following:

"I’m not sure if this will be helpful but I’ve thought of such language as a question of having a reputation for “cleanness” in our speech, as in the rest of life, out of concern for how that reflects on the gospel and on God whom we represent.

A number of different words can denote the same thing but have different connotations, some of them recognized as "unclean" or "offensive" by the culture.

Examples:

urination: taking a leak, pee, "p---"
defication: poop, "cr--", "sh--"
sexual intercourse: sleeping with someone, "f---"
rear end: backside, "a--"

Speaking of these things and using different words for them is not contrary to any biblical command (and so it is different from taking the Lord's name in vain, which is explicitly forbidden), but we are also commanded to maintain a reputation for cleanliness:

ESV Titus 2:10 not pilfering, but showing all good faith, so that in everything they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior.

ESV Ephesians 5:4 Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving.

ESV Ephesians 4:29 Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

ESV Philippians 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things.

Using the words commonly thought to be offensive in the culture seems to me to be sort of the verbal equivalent of not wearing deodorant and having body odor, or of going around with spilled food on our shirts all the time. Someone might argue that not wearing deodorant or wearing dirty clothes are not morally wrong things in themselves, but my response is that they do give needless offense and cause others to think of us as somewhat impure or unclean. So, I think, does using words commonly thought to be "obscene" or "offensive" or "vulgar" in the culture generally. Plus it encourages others to act in the same way. So in that way it brings reproach on the church and the gospel."

It is a tough conundrum.

Sinner X

FiFi said...

Johnny, I often wish I'd not discovered what I have about the world. I often wish I still had my Christian innocence, because when you can rationalise an argument by saying 'But the main factor is, if it is true, the Holy Spirit will allow a correct understanding' - wow man, that's faith! If its all gone crumbs, hey don't worry cos the Holy Spirit's gonna sort it all out.

Wouldn't have to work at relationships, job or a life then. Ah what bliss such a life must be!

Its a shame I see what a complex, beautiful, diverse world we live in.

FiFi

Anonymous said...

"Johnny, I often wish I'd not discovered what I have about the world."

Seems a bit self centered.

"I often wish I still had my Christian innocence"

I think if you were ever called a Christian it was in name only. You do not stop being a Christian if you ever were a Christian. I also enjoy the backhanded slap a Christians. They are so young and naive.

The Christian life is not as simple as you make it. It is true that the Holy Spirit is a comforter and a counselor, but contrary to your opinion it is not a check your brain at the door proposition.

Matthew 22:37
Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'

Contrary to public opinion and to the opinions of many Christians the Christian religion is an intellectual religion. I think in this format you have oversimplified what Johnny meant. I think that was intellectually dishonest. Its seems a little Piltdown Manesque. You take a statement that Johnny made about the Holy Spirit that might need a little clarification and create a fanciful world of ignorant Christians. A better tack would be to ask him to explain himself better. I would question your motives. I guess maybe a few questions would be in order:

Fifi what persuades you to visit this blog and to engage in discussion with Christians?

Fifi you seem to be more intelligent the Mike. Why not spend your time somewhere else?

"Its a shame I see what a complex, beautiful, diverse world we live in."

Again it seems like you are talking down to Christians in your lament. Christians do not deny it is a complex beautiful and diverse world. We just do not agree with you upon it's origins.

Sinner X

johnny said...

FiFi,

You said, "Johnny, I often wish I'd not discovered what I have about the world. I often wish I still had my Christian innocence,"

I'm guessing you didn't mean it as a compliment. However, i do take it as one... thank you.


"because when you can rationalise an argument"

It wasn't rationalizing. The "if it were true" was (1) an attempt to show that i try to look at both sides of a thought. (2) a reference to the claims that God's Word makes of itself.

"If its all gone crumbs, hey don't worry cos the Holy Spirit's gonna sort it all out.

Wouldn't have to work at relationships, job or a life then. Ah what bliss such a life must be!
"

I'm not sure how you got this from what had been said.

When we are talking about God's Word in the context of the Christian belief that God's Word is the Word of God, it is fair to assume that God is the one that gets credit for any understanding of His revelation.

Its a shame I see what a complex, beautiful, diverse world we live in.

In contrast to my view of the world?

johnny