Friday, 13 March 2009

Why cant i fly?

Im sure we have all seen a superheros movie, like superman or batman. Now who here can deny that a super hero is better than a person. I mean they can fly around etc. Now if we were intelligently designed then why didnt your sky daddy make us as superheros?

So if your sky daddy could make a better creation, and a better possible creation is possible then why didnt they make it?

15 comments:

Sir-Think-A-Lot said...

Strictly speaking Batman doesnt have any superpowers, hes a normal human, but I do see your point.

Anywho remember Mikey that the comic books dont just have super HEROS, but super-VILLINS as well. Imagine if Hitler or Stalin had possessed powers like dr doom or sandman or venom...

johnny said...

Mike, in order to determine if there is a better way that God could have created, you would have to know God's intentions and plan.

johnny

johnny said...

Since Mike has brought up complaints about "a better creation" in the past, this post is just to "drive the point home".


What kind of hammer is better?

Ballpeen hammer, roofing hammer, sledge hammer, war hammer, pick-hammer, geologist's hammer? I even think there is such a thing as a jewlers hammer (which proves that it's not always best to get bigger hammer [BFH] )


In 2 Kings chapter 5 there is an account of a soldier that God allowed to conquer the Israelites.
The guy was a leper and was told to go see Elisha and that God will cure him through His prophet (Elisha).
Elisha told Naaman to go to the Jordan river and dunk himself 7 times.
Naaman was pretty upset and said,

2Ki 5:12 Are not Abana and Pharpar, rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? may I not be washed in them and become clean? So turning, he went away in wrath.

But one of Naaman's servants said, "If the prophet had given you orders to do some great thing, would you not have done it? how much more then, when he says to you, Be washed and become clean?"



I'll let you to read the rest of the account, but please bare in mind that, until you know the purpose, you can't rightly judge which is better. God could have use the Abana or the Pharpar to heal Naaman... He could have used the servant girl..

The purpose in this case was to get Naaman to go God's way instead of having God go Naaman's way.

Mike, please consider going God's way. Jesus is the only way to the Father.


God Bless,
johnny

FiFi said...

"What kind of hammer is better?

Ballpeen hammer, roofing hammer, sledge hammer, war hammer, pick-hammer, geologist's hammer? I even think there is such a thing as a jewlers hammer (which proves that it's not always best to get bigger hammer [BFH] "

Johnny, if your only tool is a hammer, you will see every problem as a nail, and the every solution to bash it.

Don't know what the point of all htat bible bashing at the end of your post was either. Like I've said, I (and I'm assuming Mike, and other atheists although I cannot possible speak for everybody) see the bible as little more than a collection of fictional stories. Some of those stories may have been based upon true events.

"Mike, in order to determine if there is a better way that God could have created, you would have to know God's intentions and plan."

Or rather than waste your time finding that out, accept that he's not there at all. You could make up your own version of what his plan is. That is, after all, what most Christians do anyway. And when their version doesn't make sense with events that have happened, they will say, "You can't figure out God's plans!"

johnny said...

FiFi, did you notice what Mike's argument was?
He said, "if your sky daddy could make a better creation, and a better creation is possible then why didn't they make it?"

Mike has been answered.

To unpack it alittle for you, in order to determine if something could be created better, you need to know what the purpose was in the first place.

In order for the analogy to work, it needed to have many similar objects that have slightly-to-greatly different designs and purposes.
The analogy could have been make by using works of art, but i would have needed more qualifiers.


Don't know what the point of all htat bible bashing at the end of your post was either.

Instead of turning a deaf ear everytime something from the Bible is mentioned, try actually seeing if a point has been intended.

If you had actually given it any thought at all, you would have understood that the point could have been just as valid if it were fictional.

-------------
I said,
"Mike, in order to determine if there is a better way that God could have created, you would have to know God's intentions and plan."

FiFi said,
"Or rather than waste your time finding that out, accept that he's not there at all."
---------------

That wouldn't hardly answer Mike's question, would it?





You could make up your own version of what his plan is. That is, after all, what most Christians do anyway. And when their version doesn't make sense with events that have happened, they will say, "You can't figure out God's plans!"


What exactly are you trying to say here, FiFi?
Your complaint here, has nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

Mike thinks his argument has some strength. His argument boils down to a version of the Problem of Evil. Mike thinks that his idea of design is better than God's design, but it is impossible to know a better design unless you know what the purpose of that design was.
Mike's argument fails and your emotion is misplaced.

johnny

FiFi said...

Johnny, I think it is you who have misunderstood. Mike doesn't actually think god designed us, rather he's being sarcastic.

The point is we weren't designed, we evolved. But anyway, I was responding to your comments, not Mike's. That's what a discussion is about - responding to points raised.

Although on Mike's point, what was god playing at designing women to have periods?? What kind of sick joke was that? And where did he come up with the idea of having childbirth - where what's coming out of the hole is bigger than the hole itself?? Wasn't very intelligently designed if you ask me.

Oh no, that's right, it wasn't designed, it evolved that way.

Get it?

johnny said...

FiFi, I'm not saying that Mike thinks God designed us. Mike has been consistantly saying that he doesn't belief in God.
But the only sarcasm, from Mike, that i see in this particular thread is in his style, not his content.

I think Mike switches between 1) trying to agravate Christians (unsuccessfully, at least in my case) and 2) trying to give arguments against Christianity/ Christian beliefs. Mike also, at times, uses a combination of these.

Unless there is a good reason for me to think it's not an argument, i'm going to treat it as such.

How i understand Mike's argument is:

"a. Christians think that a perfect being designed creation.
b. a perfect being would design perfection.
c. I (Mike W.) can conceive of a better creation than the one we see, and, although i'm Wright, i'm not perfect.

d. Therefore, a perfect being could not have designed creation."


I'm attacking one flaw in Mike's argument.. the use of 'better'.


FiFi said, "The point is we weren't designed, we evolved."

You declare.

But anyway, I was responding to your comments, not Mike's. That's what a discussion is about - responding to points raised.

I have been trying to respond to you as well as Mike, but i'm also trying to keep the answers consistant.

Although on Mike's point, what was god playing at designing women to have periods?? What kind of sick joke was that? And where did he come up with the idea of having childbirth - where what's coming out of the hole is bigger than the hole itself?? Wasn't very intelligently designed if you ask me.

Your statement here (and your conclusion) is right in line with Mike's.... and my response to you is almost the same as to Mike...
Just because you don't agree with God's method or understand His purpose, does not mean that God does not exist, and it also does not mean that evolution is true.

Oh no, that's right, it wasn't designed, it evolved that way.

nope, but since you don't believe in God, you gotta have something to believe in.

Get it?

Oh, i understand the belief, i just don't buy into it.

johnny

Sir-Think-A-Lot said...

So nobody wants to discuss my nitpicking about Batman not having super powers. Or my point about super villens...

johnny said...

I thought it twas an excellent point....

i s'pose no one wants to touch it cuz no one wants to get

zzapped or zzowwied or biffed

FiFi said...

Johnny, have you ever looked into why evolution is such a popular and sound theory? Do you know the principles behind it? Do you understand how DNA works?

It has taken centuries of humans experimenting with the different aspects of this theory to come up with what we understand today. Back when Darwin realised the truth of natural selection, we didn't have genetics in anything like the form we have today. Today we have mapped the human genome, we can isolate what gene does what and are making headway into eradicating cruel and crippling genetic disorders.

People did that, not your 'god'. And they didn't do it by reading an out-of-date manuscript written by delusional madmen.

You ask me to consider your fairytale with all seriousness, and yet you don't understand reality yoursef, nor are you willing to research reality.

I guess fantasy, in your case, is safer.

johnny said...

Johnny, have you ever looked into why evolution is such a popular and sound theory? Do you know the principles behind it? Do you understand how DNA works?...

**snipped for brevity**

....You ask me to consider your fairytale with all seriousness, and yet you don't understand reality yoursef, nor are you willing to research reality.

I guess fantasy, in your case, is safer.


I'm pretty sure i have a fair, layman's handle on the theory.... and not because of reading Christian material.

The fantasy, though, is the worldview that is espoused by the naturalist.

To be as brief as i can be, natural origin's Evolution (that is to say, Evolution that is completely devoid of any theistic, deistic, or pantheistic origin/help) is like playing poker with someone that gets a Royal Flush every hand... it just can't happen without "a little help". Happening once or twice or even occasionally, ok, possible, but it happens at nearly every turn of events... royal flush after royal flush.

johnny

FiFi said...

Johnny, you have just proved my point rather beautifully, thank you.

There were, in fact, many disasters in Earth's history that could have wiped out all life on Earth, but ended up catalysing evolution in that life survived despite the odds. For example, before humans evolved, in fact before much complex life evolved, the Earth froze over completely. It ended up catalysing complex life forms.

That's just one little, brief example for you. There is so much wonder in natural history and you're just so ignorant to it all! I highly recommend that you find out more.

And before you turn the tables and then ask me to read the bible or some other nonsense, if I did read it then I'd appreciate it for the fiction it is.

You only have to look into natural history a little to become completely amazed by it. Watch some David Attenborough documentaries, and then come back to tell me about why these incredible animals are there, far far away from the human eye (except through the medium of television) displaying the most incredible behaviour.

Anyway, I'm on my lunch and have to get back to work.

johnny said...

Johnny, you have just proved my point rather beautifully, thank you.

What? that naturalism is a bunch of fairy stories?

There were, in fact, many disasters in Earth's history that could have wiped out all life on Earth, but ended up catalysing evolution in that life survived despite the odds. For example, before humans evolved, in fact before much complex life evolved, the Earth froze over completely. It ended up catalysing complex life forms.

No. At best, that's what they think happened.

That's just one little, brief example for you. There is so much wonder in natural history and you're just so ignorant to it all! I highly recommend that you find out more.

lol.. ok.

And before you turn the tables and then ask me to read the bible or some other nonsense, if I did read it then I'd appreciate it for the fiction it is.

actually, i was wondering if you wanted to play poker... i get to deal because i want to practice my cheating, err, shuffling, i mean. ... you won't mind that i always get royal flushes, will you?
I'll deal you the occasional straight flush.

You only have to look into natural history a little to become completely amazed by it.

I agree.
Our God is an awesome God.

Watch some David Attenborough documentaries, and then come back to tell me about why these incredible animals are there, far far away from the human eye (except through the medium of television) displaying the most incredible behaviour.

Sorry to break it to you, but Attenborough or not... incredible behavior does not prove natural origins... nor does the diversity of the animals or their environments/niches.

Anyway, I'm on my lunch and have to get back to work.

hope it was a good one. (both lunch and your day at work).


johnny

FiFi said...

Johnny, you're doing my head in with your petty point scoring. You didn't actually score any opints there, but you think you did. You only get points for ignorance and stupidity.

How you have the gall to take the bible at face value and ignore actual evidence put in front of you, and even have the cheek to call that evidence 'fairy stories'. Well, I really do think you've been so sucked into the christian sect that you're beyond help.

Try buying an issue of The New Scientist, or National Geographic. You won't find any god pollution there.

johnny said...

FiFi, you talk about ME being brainwashed... have you ever actually looked at the way things are worded in your own reading material??
Go ahead, look for yourself.


And as for my ignorance and stupidity.... do you have an idea what the odds are for being dealt a royal flush?
If you were in a poker game, and two people were dealt a royal, somebody better be calling "misdeal, cheater".

Your natural origins evolution is like getting dealt royal after royal after royal after royal... as i understand it, the odds are so high that any rational person should be saying, "no way!! can't happen without help... billions of years is not enough time".


johnny