Friday, 10 April 2009

When did jebus die?

Why is it that the date of easter changes each year? Xians often say that easter is to celebrate a certain number of years since jebus died however if the date of easter keeps changing then it cant possibly be on the same day jebus died.

It also raises another stunning question...why did the bible writers record jebus genealogies in great detail however not record the date of easter incase people wanted to celebrate it afterwards. Afterall, they had festivals in jebuss day so the thought must have occured to them. Is it because easter never happened?


johnny said...

Hi Mike.

I'm gonna go with a guess for now, cuz i don't have time to look it up.

I would assume that it has something to do with the Passover Festival, since i don't think the Jews celebrate that as a fixed day.
Christians observe the Last Supper, which commemorates the Passover feast that Jesus and His Disciples celebrated before His death and resurrection.

Also, i would assume that Easter has a movable date because it's significant that He was risen on the first day of the week (after the Sabbath).

Like i said, this is just a guess... i'll see if i can find a better answer this evening or this weekend.

Happy Easter Mike.


ZAROVE said...

I love how people join the militant Atheist movement and then identify themselves as Logical and Rational by virtue of their Atheism, as if they hold a Monopoly on Logic and Reason as a Result, and then come up with things like this...

The Date of Easter changes because Jesus was raised on Sunday in Traditional thought. So it will always be on a Sunday. If Easter was Celebrated on a Fixed Date, like the 3rd of April, it wouldn't always be on a Sunday. And the above poster is right, it IS linked to Passover, and the Jewish Calender, which is Lunar, and doesn't follow the course of our solar year.

Easter is Celebrated on the first Sunday after the first full moon after the Vernal Equinox, specifically. Since the first full moon after the Vernal Equinox is also Passover, (And happened to be on Holy Thursday this year) this is when the first Mass is thought to have been said in Catholic thinking. Its when the Last supper took place.

Then you just wait till Sunday, to Commemorate the Lord Rising on that Day.

its not all that Nonsensical.

But it is nonsensical to make this sort of complaint after naming this blog "THe Intelligence Zone".

Try reading up on a topic before mindlessly critisisng it.

(Unless this blog is Satire, at which I will apologise in advance.)

johnny said...

thanks, Zarove.


ps. Mike, if this wasn't sufficient, let us know.

Mike is Wright said...

You still havent explained why the bible doesnt record the exatc date jebus was executed.

This stuff about jews worshipping the moon is interesting in light of the zeitgeist the movie (so jews and xians worshiped the moon and sun?)

johnny said...

Where do you see in ZAROVE's answer (or mine) that the Jew's or Christian's worshipped the moon?

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Aproximately 24 hours for about 365 days is a year. There is no worship of sun or moon here.

Neither is there worship of the sun or moon in using the first full moon after the Vernal Equinox to mark when Passover would be celebrated. (it would be for signs and for seasons).

According to Nelson's Compact Bible Dictionary, the Feast of Passover was observed on the fourteenth day of the first month, Abib, with the service beginning in the evening (Leviticus 23:6).

As to your question of "why the bible doesnt record the exact date Jesus was executed".
I'm not so sure that it doesn't. It gives us many clues.
Some of them are:
a. Jesus and His disciples celebrated the Passover Feast (time of year)
b. It happened right before a Sabbath (day of the week)
c. Pilate was the Roman authority in the region (narrows down a set of years)
d. the High Priest was Caiaphas
(further narrows down a set of years)

A couple of things that make the dating difficult..

A. the month of Abib seems to have at least two meanings... a. Exodus and Leviticus seem to have it in autumn (the barley was ripe, therefore it was damaged by hail during the plague in Egypt) b. During the Babylonian exile, the Babylonian calendar may have been used for a time. c. barley does not ripen on the same day each year (which means that the Festival had a "floating" date)**

B. More calendar differences...
a. Julian calendar
b. Gregorian calendar

**Abib and the Harvest

The month of the Abib is the month which commences after the barley has reached the stage of Abib. 2-3 weeks after the beginning of the month the barley has moved beyond the stage of Abib and is ready to be brought as the "wave-sheaf offering" (Hanafat HaOmer). The "wave-sheaf offering" is a sacrifice brought from the first stalks cut in the harvest and is brought on the Sunday which falls out during Passover (Hag HaMatzot). This is described in Lev 23,10-11:


In conclusion, Mike, i think it might be possible to come up with an exact date, assuming all variables could be accounted for..
I'm sure that some people have made reasonably accurate suggestions...

i understand this is not quite the answer that you are looking for.

Let's go with your OP question again..
why did the bible writers record Jesus genealogies in great detail however not record the date of easter incase people wanted to celebrate it afterwards. Afterall, they had festivals in Jesus' day so the thought must have occured to them. Is it because easter never happened?

Because the way things were dated back then, were based on who was ruler of what, and how many years of their reign such and such happened. (procouncils, high priests, equinox's, Feasts, Sabbaths, etc. all serve this function in the same way). The modern use of dates (i.e. Gregorian calendar) is BC and AD, and was not established until Pope Gregory's papal bull (1500's ?).


ZAROVE said...

Johnny is correct, the Bible does give a Date for Jeuss's resurrection. The Sunday following Passover.

This is in line with the Lunar calender, and also answers Johnnys own Question. Lunar months gradually slip over the course of the years, and aren't always consistent, thus why Easter sometimes falls in March and at other times in April.

Still, since the people writing the text where Jewish with the possible exception of Luke, wouldn't it be more logical to think of them making temporal references using Jewish Calendric cycles as opposed to the Roman Solar Calender?

At any event, the Jews and Christians do not worship the Moon, but rather the moons cycles are used by Jews (And where used by the Early Christians, themselves Jewish) as a means of setting a calender and marking the passage of time, and denotating seasons.

No where in this can you get worship.

And I am near convinced this site is a Satire now.

johnny said...

ZAROVE, do you know of any reason why the original Passover/Exodus seems to have been during autumn, but is now (and was, in Jesus' day) celebrated in spring?