Monday, 2 June 2008

Next round

Firstly i would like to thank JB for giving me such an easy response to demolish and steven carr and fifi for their intelligent comments on the previous post. Johnny anomonus also aknowledged there was a lot of meat in my post and he is an xian. So here we go, i feel like a big ball on the end of a chain ready to smah into the argument and knock it to bits.

We still have bone remnants of ancient Jews, even Jewish crucifixion victims (e.g., the famed Yohanan), preserved to this day;
But these are rare preserved under special conditions. Pompeii is meant to be the best conditions for perserving archaeology in the world and yet they found not skeletons there. So if the people of pompeii had their body eaten why didnt jebus?

why, precisely, would worms have consumed the body of Jesus, bones and all, within the lifetimes of the disciples?
Who says it happened in the life time of the disciples? Oh sorry the bible does. you realise that only xians take the bible slightly seriously. there is no evidence that jebus body was in the tomb. Now wouldnt the disciples notice and loose their beliefs? No. Mormons believe their book is authentic despite it being proved false. Imagine in 2000 years time someone said "well nobody would have remained a mormon if the book of arbraham had been shown conclusively to be a fake..."what would you say? What about creationism? wouldn't people not believe it if evolution had been shown to be true. Religios people believe whatever they want to believe. If the body of jebus was still in the tomb they would claim it was a fake or only a theory etc etc.
Which of the claimed "eyewitnesses", either among the Three or the Eight, were martyred?
Earl dorothy thinks that there is no evidence that the first xians were martyred
hat is, of course, pure speculation on my part, but given the fairly clear evidence that the story narrated by Smith's purported translation of the plates is utterly ahistorical
youve missed the point. We know mormonism is ahistorical and yet many people believe it. Why do we know it is ahistorical? Because it happened a lot more recently. How do you know that xianity didnt start in the same way mormonism did? maybe if mormonism happened 2000 years ago and xianity a hundred years ago it would be the other way around

And your substantiation for this would be...?
Are you seriously asking for evidence that they didnt have wiis, tvs and the internet in jebus day? your even more ignorant than i thought

First of all, Russell's Teapot was one of the most pitiful epistemological blunders that Russell ever made.
ad homin attack. It is valid, i can sit here and wait for you to give me evidence to my satisfaction

Your arguments also commit the anthropic principle. To ask why people came to belive jebus rose from the dead is a non quetion as we wouldnt be asing it if such a belief hadnt been belived
I question the value of memetics as a contribution to scientific study
your ignorance astounds me. indeed memes explain why people believde in the reserection. Someone caught the jebus rose from the dead meme and it spread like the plague.
Come now, Mike, unlike yourself, I've researched the ancient myths.

Ah - so you admit that the bible is an ancient myth. I win the debate
If you want to set forth any of Price's arguments on behalf of the pagan copycatting thesis, by all means do so, but I warn you that playing that card in a debate with me is rather
Here is a photo of dionysus crucified:

and here he is risen from the dead:


There we go.

you really are going to have tyo try harder JB


11 comments:

lilpixieofterror said...

Those pictures come from AFTER Christianity became establish you dumb twit! Do you even do the slightest bit of research before you make a post?

JB said...

You fight a losing battle with a foolhardy confidence born of pride, not of truth or of ability. It's sad, really.

You'll find my Round 3 entry at:

http://mundaneenigma.blogspot.com/2008/06/third-response-to-mike-wright.html

Anonymous said...

Mike said:

Johnny anomonus also aknowledged there was a lot of meat in my post and he is an xian.



Bologna is also meat, Mike. Don't break your arm, patting yourself on the back, i was merely stating that i was only going to touch base on a small amount of your comments.... meat by-product as it were.


johnny taco.

FiFi said...

Hello!! :-)

Read this boys: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus and weep. You'll see that Dionysus was a part of Greek mythology, which far pre-dates Christianity. Try again.

Who's the dumb twit now LPoT?

JB, I'll not waste my time reading your blog, but it must be a huge ego boost for you Mike to see he's dedicated a whole section to responses to you?! Nice one ;-)

I can tell from yesterday's posts that you are all really riled by being outwitted time and again. Never mind, I'm sure you'll get over it.

Ho ho.

FiFi

Anonymous said...

Hello!! :-)

Read this boys: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus and weep. You'll see that Dionysus was a part of Greek mythology, which far pre-dates Christianity. Try again.



Hi Fifi,

I think you misunderstood. It was not whether Dionysus predated Christianity, but rather that the art that Mike shared pictures of, were actually pre-Christian...
Or even depicted Dionysus.

Who's the dumb twit now LPoT?


I can tell from yesterday's posts that you are all really riled by being outwitted time and again. Never mind, I'm sure you'll get over it.


Outwitted? Please.
With all due respect, most of what's been presented by us, is dumbed down so you three can comprehend.

Y'all havent shown anything worthy of getting us riled. We've seen and dealt with everything the three of you have thrown our way...
long before we knew you existed.
So far you haven't shown us anything new.

Time for me to go to work... have a good day.

God Bless,
johnny

me said...

why is it that atheists will believe that Christianity radically changed beyond recognition between when Jesus was alive and the gospels were written and yet have no problem claiming beliefs about Dionysus went unchanged for hundreds of years between when a paining they show was drawn and a time pre Jesus?

Chaotic Void said...

Fifi the Piddling French Poodle
Read this boys: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus and weep. You'll see that Dionysus was a part of Greek mythology, which far pre-dates Christianity. Try again.

Chaotic Void:
Boy, it sure must be nice be able to quote wikipedia and be above your own standard for research. I'm disappointed that an alleged "Free-Thinker" like yourself didn't come up with something better.

Fifi the Piddling French Poodle:
I can tell from yesterday's posts that you are all really riled by being outwitted time and again. Never mind, I'm sure you'll get over it.

Chaotic Void:
Far from it, M’Lady. I'm actually amused with your Egotistical "I'm better than you so I don't have to respond" attitude.

lilpixieofterror said...

Hey there Fifi! I see that you'd rather use Wikipedia rather than real research. Let me get started:

You'll see that Dionysus was a part of Greek mythology, which far pre-dates Christianity. Try again.

http://www.tektonics.org/copycat/dionysus.html

Old news lady, JPH does a number to the dionysus story and the wikipedia article there. Refute it if you can.

Who's the dumb twit now LPoT?

You, for actually using a wikipedia article for research purposes. College courses don't allow them. Know why?

I can tell from yesterday's posts that you are all really riled by being outwitted time and again. Never mind, I'm sure you'll get over it.

The dim witted are often unaware of how dumb they are, eh?

FiFi said...

Chaotic void, go back to school. Pay attention in science class. Come back in 5 (or 10 - I assume you're a teenager by your general tone and arrogance) years when you know something about life. I assume you get your web name by the amount and state of space between your ears.

You all say there's no need to get insulting with you - which by the way I haven't - then CV goes and uses the old chestnut of FiFi the poodle. Oh how original. You little twat. What has that got to do with the point at hand? Nothing. What have you got to contribute to this argument? Nothing. Go home to your mum. The poodle thing was just such a cheap, lame shot.

LPoT's comment:

"The dim witted are often unaware of how dumb they are, eh?"

Just about says it all regarding anybody who has religion and honestly believes all the clap trap you're told.

Start thinking for yourselves cos its getting really boring that you can't grasp the simple concept of reality.

Has anybody else notices how these xians don't apply the slightest bit of scrutiny to their own arguments and yet demand absolute proof for the plainly obvious? Like:
Christian: Is that chair really a chair?
Atheist: Of course it is!!
Christian: I don't believe you, prove it.
Atheist: Because I can see it and sit on it and its still there. Its real! Blimey, you really can't argue with stupidity, can you?!
Christian: I don't believe you. The Bible doesn't say anything about it. I'll go and ask a vicar.

vs

Atheist: Is there an invisible all powerful god up in the sky where we can't see him?
Christian: Of course there is, a vicar told me so and I believe him.
Atheist: Well I've seen no evidence for this, can you show me some?
Christian: No, but you can't prove that he isn't up there either. I don't have to prove my ridiculous theory - you have to prove I'm wrong!

Give me strength!!!

Okay, we know there's nothing above the sky we can see except space because (and I hope you're sitting down for this great revelation) we have telescopes that can see that far and way, way beyond! So far nobody's spotted a beardy guy with angels singing all around him.

I suppose now you'll start talking about the other realms where he lives.

Yeah, like the realms of fantasy.

Anonymous said...

Fifi said:
Has anybody else notices how these xians don't apply the slightest bit of scrutiny to their own arguments and yet demand absolute proof for the plainly obvious? Like:
Christian: Is that chair really a chair?
Atheist: Of course it is!!
Christian: I don't believe you, prove it.
Atheist: Because I can see it and sit on it and its still there. Its real! Blimey, you really can't argue with stupidity, can you?!
Christian: I don't believe you. The Bible doesn't say anything about it. I'll go and ask a vicar.


Fifi, i'm sure you'll also blow this off without investigating, but the argument you just used for demonstration is some "pretty high fah-loot'n philosophy stuff".
And the fact that you don't realise that it's going over your head says more about you than of the Christians.


You mentioned some Invent-shun called the tell-a-scoap and that you haven't seen God peering back at you....

So, Fifi, have you and your telescope searched the entire universe?
Are you capable of understanding that there --- even from your own worldview--- could be things outside of the universe... hint, scientists postulate that there could be other universes.--- are you aware of the reasons why they think there might be?

BTW, i for one, did not believe just because the "vicar" told me... i've actually studied and thought.
I'm pretty sure that i can make the same claim for the other Christians that have participated in this blog, since we have discussed things before on Tweb.

God Bless,
johnny taco xtreem5150ahm

lilpixieofterror said...

"Chaotic void, go back to school. Pay attention in science class."

Hey Fifi, did you know that I'm a science student and still haven't seen a reason to become an atheist? Now, do you have something to tell me that I didn't know before? I'd love for you to give me something... anything... that would show me that God is scientifically impossible.

Come back in 5 (or 10 - I assume you're a teenager by your general tone and arrogance) years when you know something about life. I assume you get your web name by the amount and state of space between your ears.

Your hypocritical attitude is truly breath taking there fifi. It's funny how you call others arrogant and you're incapable of seeing your self. I guess you don't like it when a mirror reflects back upon you?

Just about says it all regarding anybody who has religion and honestly believes all the clap trap you're told.

Like that rant answered a thing I said. What's the problem fifi, too stupid to provide a real answer to a word I said so now you must rant to make up for your lack of answers?

Start thinking for yourselves cos its getting really boring that you can't grasp the simple concept of reality.

So says the same person who tried to use wikipedia as a source, Talk about hypocritical standards! Haha! Fifi, the reality is that you're too dumb to answer a word I said so you're dodging with long winded ranting. I'm a science student fifi, my goal is to someday be a science professor after I get out of the AF so don't try to act as if I don't know what is going on because I do.

Has anybody else notices how these xians don't apply the slightest bit of scrutiny to their own arguments and yet demand absolute proof for the plainly obvious? Like:
Christian: Is that chair really a chair?
Atheist: Of course it is!!
Christian: I don't believe you, prove it.
Atheist: Because I can see it and sit on it and its still there. Its real! Blimey, you really can't argue with stupidity, can you?!
Christian: I don't believe you. The Bible doesn't say anything about it. I'll go and ask a vicar.


Well, it seems you are about as dumb as a post. Let me fill you in on some reality.

1. I am not a catholic and therefore I can't ask my vicar about anything, huh?
2. You really do not understand the bases of the argument, do you? The argument is asking you how do you know that a chair is a chair outside of your own sense, in other words... how do you test that your senses are a reliable source of data? Did you understand that or do I need to repeat it in simpler words so you'll understand it?

It seems like to me fifi that you really are dumb as a post and let others do your thinking for you. It would do you a load of good to read about philosophy before you make an idiot of yourself.

Okay, we know there's nothing above the sky we can see except space because (and I hope you're sitting down for this great revelation) we have telescopes that can see that far and way, way beyond! So far nobody's spotted a beardy guy with angels singing all around him.

1. God is not part of this universe so why should we expect to see him and heaven with a telescope?
2. We know very little about the universe and how it works. Don't believe me? Did you know that we can't see 30% of the universe? Did you know we still can't explain how Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto formed? There is much about the universe we do not know, so I really do not see how you can say for sure that God does not exist.
3. There is more to the world then can be seen. I can not show you my memories, so do they exist? I can not prove that the universe was not created 5 minutes ago and we all have fake memories, yet why should I reject those theories?
4. The scientific method can not prove itself. Can you scientifically prove that the scientific method is a reliable source of data?

I'd love to see you provide a real answer to what I said instead of dodging it. BTW, do you have an answer to JPH's article yet or did you dodge that too?

I suppose now you'll start talking about the other realms where he lives.

Yeah, like the realms of fantasy.


You mean like the muti-universe theory? Oh, you didn't know that scientist have proposed that multiple universes exist? I guess those are fantasy now too? Come back when you are capable of providing an answer and not dodging. So when shall I see you offer a rebuttal to JPH's article or will you hypocritically accuse me of not thinking for myself while citing wikipedia as a source?