Saturday, 17 May 2008

Impossible Faith

O.K, i was given this article and asked to debunk it, so here we go:

Factor #1 -- Who Would Buy One Crucified?
Well lots of people have become xians and the cross is the symbol of christianity, so quite a lot of people. Put ontop of that the fact that most pagan gods were crucified (Mithras, Dionysus to name a few) and we have your question answer

Factor #2 -- Neither Here Nor There: Or, A Man from Galilee??
They have two question marks which shows they don understand basic grammer. Why does batman come from Gotham city or why does harry potter live in a cubord under the stairs. Lots of fictional charcters come from fictional places

Factor #3 -- Getting Physical! The Wrong "Resurrection"
Is spiderman meant to be physical? just because some versions of the myth said jesus was a person who rose from the dead doesn't make it true

Factor #4 -- What's New? What's Not Good
Ummm, no. Xians associated themselves with jewdaism which was already established. This one backfires on you

Factor #5 -- Don't Demand Behavior
Xian behaviour is not hard to do compared to jewish behaviour and roman soldier behaviour which people were used to. It basically taught that if you believe god exists you get a freee ticket to heaven - what could be easier?

Factor #6 -- Tolerance is a Virtue
So you admit that xians are intolerant? But they are no more or no less intolerant that aother religions. Are you saying that muhammed was a nice tolerant guy?

Factor #7 -- Stepping Into History
There is evidence that the first xians only took the sotries metaphoriaclly (I remember a scholar called domonic crossan mentioning this) and it was centurys later that the gospels were seen as history

Factor #8 -- Do Martyrs Matter, and More?
Muslims fly planes into buildings but does that make their religion true? This really is a retarded point

Factor #9 -- Human vs. Divine: Never the Twain Shall Meet!
As people like Dan Brown have pointed out, nobody thought jebus was divine until consinitne

Factor #10 -- No Class!
Umm, xinity is one of the most sexist, class orintated, homophopic, mean and nasty religions the world has ever seen.

Factor #11 -- Don't Rely on Women!
What a higly sexist comment which contradicts the last point

Factor #12 -- Don't Rely on Bumpkins, Either!
Well no, stupid people are more likly to believe stupid claims

Factor #13 -- You Can't Keep a Secret!
I can easly keep a secret - Do you know whatr my secrets are?

Factor #14 -- An Ignorant Deity??
Jebus wasnt a deity, he was a man. And ignorance is bliss and allows things like creationism to take of.

Factor #15 -- A Prophet Without Honor
Oh, so jebus had no honor, thats why you don't worship him i assume?

Factor #16 -- Miscellaneous Contrarium
No not really. Jebus might have gone to buddhist school and learnt his values from there. I suspect that the bible reflects 1 century roman empire morality.

Factor #17 -- Encouraging People to Check the Facts for Themselves
No really. Phycologists have shown that sounding confident is the way to pull lies of.

Well, I think thats thoughouly debunked. Try harder next time

10 comments:

Spacefoetus said...

....you're a parody

Anonymous said...

Mike, i give you some credit... i actually thought that you would never look at opposing facts.


However, many of your "rebuttals" indicate that you do not understand the arguments that you are trying to fight.




Spacefoetus, don't get lazy now... you're doing a good job. Take your time with what you know, and be honest with what you don't.
Keep up the good work.


johnny

lilpixieofterror said...

These are arguments in some circles?

Nick said...

Mikey. Get a clue. You're not even touching the arguments when you think they are. Check the first one. Who would buy a man crucified?

Now we can say after the fact that several did. The question is, "Why?" The point is that in a Jewish culture, if you were crucified, you were under God's curse. Why would you want to identify someone God cursed as your new Messiah?

Anonymous said...

Messiah is annointed one... Holy or Blessed from God.


That's a whole lot different than Cursed of God.


Sorry Nick, i wasn't sure if Mike knew the definition, and without the definition, it would be like Mikey looking at a fire escape, but not knowing what it is, and how to use it... while the building is burning around Mikey.


johnny aka, xtreem5150

chocolate cowgirl said...

Nick asks "Who would buy a man crucified?"

Why is this a strong arguement? I would guess that a particular insightful rabbi was actually crucified and rumors of a resurrection created interest and intrigue. It must be stress that Jesus was reported to stoically accept his fate - that would be honor. To fight and attempt to escape would be dishonor. What is so incredulous about that.

How about this... would buy a man who alleged interpreted golden plates, unseen by disinterested parties, talk about civilizations that didn't exist, was a known womanizer and was murdered jumping out of jail window trying to escape while shooting wildly back at an attacking mob. Sounds even more incredulous. Maybe you should consider LDS due to the incredulousness of it all.

The rest of the IPF point are similar in nature - convincing via incredulity to those would want to be convinced.

Nick said...

Chocolate. You really need to understand the rules of that culture. You're not even touching it. You didn't address the point I made. If you were crucified, you were under God's curse in that age. Why would someone make a messiah out of someone who was under God's curse? I don't know....maybe they saw them resurrected again meaning that God had vindicated the claim that Christ made?

Mike is Wright said...

for the same reason they made a messiah out of dionysus

Anonymous said...

oh really Mike? A Jewish Messiah out of dionysus?

I gave you the short version definition of Messiah, and you overlooked it to make a blunder like this??

Come on Mike... i thought you implied that you are smart or bright or a free thinker or something...

Sir-Think-A-Lot said...

I cant believe I'm actually doing this.

"Well lots of people have become xians and the cross is the symbol of christianity, so quite a lot of people."

this ones been done to death here. The issue isnt whether people did accept Jesus as the Messiah the question is why?

"Put ontop of that the fact that most pagan gods were crucified (Mithras, Dionysus to name a few) and we have your question answer"

Please show primary sources indicating that these gods were crucified and we'll go from there.

"Why does batman come from Gotham city or why does harry potter live in a cubord under the stairs. Lots of fictional charcters come from fictional places"

Galilee isnt a fictional place. It was the ANE equivelent of Lafayette, Indiana. Nobody would believe that a famous rock star could come from there, except for the fact that one(namely Axl Rose) did.

"Is spiderman meant to be physical? just because some versions of the myth said jesus was a person who rose from the dead doesn't make it true"

Again you miss the point, outside of the Jewish community nobody believed in a physical ressurection. Thus claiming a physical ressurection made it difficult to claim Gentile members, and become anything other than a Jewish sect.

"Ummm, no. Xians associated themselves with jewdaism which was already established. This one backfires on you"

True, but they also disavowed many of its practices, and claimed as a messiah one the Jews rejected. Which in Roman eyes made them a new religion.

"Xian behaviour is not hard to do compared to jewish behaviour and roman soldier behaviour which people were used to. "

Its true Jewish practices were tough to follow as well, but I think applies more to Gentile converts. Not sure what you mean by "Roman Soldure behavior."

"It basically taught that if you believe god exists you get a freee ticket to heaven - what could be easier?"

It also demanded abstances from drinking(or at least from getting drunk) and from sex rituals(which were effectivly orgies done in the name of a given god).

This was actually a fairly minor point, but I'v actually seen this same point used today, by athiests who dont agree with Christian morality.

"So you admit that xians are intolerant? But they are no more or no less intolerant that aother religions. Are you saying that muhammed was a nice tolerant guy?"

Exactly, the Romans were intolorent of people who refused to worship the Emperor as divine. They grudgingly accpted Judism because of its antiquity and because the Jews saw themselves as the chosen people and didnt demand the comlete overturn of Roman belief.(however their tolorance of the Jews only lasted as long as they kept the peace, as soon as they caused trouble the Romans had no qualms about butchering them and destroying the centerpiece of their religion).

But now we have a new religion that denies the divinity of the Emperor and wants the social and religious order of Rome completely obliterated. Why would they flock ot such a movement?

"There is evidence that the first xians only took the sotries metaphoriaclly (I remember a scholar called domonic crossan mentioning this) and it was centurys later that the gospels were seen as history"

Would you mind sharing some of this 'evidence' with us?

"Muslims fly planes into buildings but does that make their religion true? This really is a retarded point"

JP actually deals with this very point:

'And again note the standard skeptical line that "in every religion people die for their beliefs." This is very relevant today as we have Islamic militants (deviants from the norm we are told, but that is beyond our scope) who willingly die, even suicidally, for their beliefs. But here again the beliefs in question are not grounded in historical data. One who would readily die for the belief that they would enter a paradise upon death may not be so ready to die for a belief that Washington did (or did not) cross the Delaware. With Islam's central beliefs rooted not in history but in theology, this is a non-factor.' (http://www.tektonics.org/uz/yeswayjose3.html)

"As people like Dan Brown have pointed out, nobody thought jebus was divine until consinitne"

I think the fact that you cite Dan Brown is all that needs pointing out here.

"Umm, xinity is one of the most sexist, class orintated, homophopic, mean and nasty religions the world has ever seen."

no comment.

"What a higly sexist comment which contradicts the last point"

How does this contradict the last point? If anything it compliments it. The culture as a whole saw women as unreliable witness, and yet according hte Gospels it was women who were the first to see the empty tomb and talk to the ressurected Jesus.

Did you even read JP's points? Or did you just skim over the headings?

"Well no, stupid people are more likly to believe stupid claims"

Exactly JP's point. Peter and the other Apostles would have been regarded in the ancient world as "stupid rednecks" and their testimony would have been dismissed on this point. Unless of course they had something to back their claims up.

"I can easly keep a secret - Do you know whatr my secrets are?"

no comment.

"Jebus wasnt a deity, he was a man."

Thats the point in debate.

"And ignorance is bliss"

So I take you are perfectly happy huh?

"Oh, so jebus had no honor,"

Yep. at least in the ancients eyes.

"No not really. Jebus might have gone to buddhist school and learnt his values from there."

And where would go to 'Buddist school' in Palastine?

"I suspect that the bible reflects 1 century roman empire morality."

to some extent yes, but a great deal of Jesus's teachings would have been highly offensive first century romans.

"No really. Phycologists have shown that sounding confident is the way to pull lies of."

Until someone actually does check the facts for themselves.