Friday, 30 May 2008

Science is the way to go

Why does science rule out the existence of sky daddies? Well science is concerned with the natural, things we can touch see and smell. But religion believes in the supernatural which we cannot see, touch or smell. Sky Daddies by definition are not things we can see, touch or smell and so if you want to believe in science then you have to rule out the existence of sky daddies.

Some might argue that this makes it impossible to prove that sky daddies exist. This is ofcourse nonsense. If you could get a bit of your sky daddy and put it into a test tube, carry out an experiment to show that this is a being who can control the universe called Jebus then i would admit that im wrong straight away. Using xian logic then wed need to say fairies and pink unicorns exist etc etc

Heres a challenge to xians, without using the bible and only using stuff which i can personally see and touch or smell show that your stupid religion is true.

And heres another thing. Science has given us toasters, computers, planes and chocolate pudding, what has religion given us?

8 comments:

Chaotic Void said...

"And heres another thing. Science has given us toasters, computers, planes and chocolate pudding, what has religion given us?"

A reason to make Toasters, Computers, Planes and Chocolate Pudding. And universities. And Hospice Facilities. The List is Endless.
For those who are Hyperbolically impaired, "Endless" was a hyperbole, something used to stress a point.

Riddle me this, Mikey...
-What reason does Science give us for Existence?
-What evidence do we have that the Natural and Supernatural are Dichotomized?

Spacefoetus said...

Mike:Why does science rule out the existence of sky daddies?

Me: Uh, it doesn't?

Mike: Well science is concerned with the natural, things we can touch see and smell

Me: Yes, and also about plotting unseeable hypothesis about what we CAN'T experience. For example, we KNOW there is Red Shift as we can detect it with out senses, but we CAN'T experience the Big Bang- we just assume it from Red Shift and other evidence.

Mike:But religion believes in the supernatural which we cannot see, touch or smell.

Me: According to Tektonic's "Leading Christian Myths" section, there is no such thing as the supernatural as far as the post-Enlightenment distiction between natural and suppernatural goes. I don't understand what JP Holding's saying though, but there you go.

Mike:Sky Daddies by definition are not things we can see, touch or smell and so if you want to believe in science then you have to rule out the existence of sky daddies.

Me: False. What you're talking about is "scientism" the belief that absolutly everything HAS to be known by science, and that there is nothing but the universe. however, many scienitists have ackowledged that "scientism" is a pile of crap, as we CAN'T possibly know anything by science. consider, for example our senses, the very foundation for science. How do we prove what that our senses give a proper view of reality? We can't. we just have to accept it. but according to scientism if we can't prove it scientifically, we shouldnt believe it. So, we shouldnt believe our senses give us an adequate view of reality. Therefore science doesn't give us an adequate view of reality. therefore scientism is wrong. Mnay scientists are theists/Christian

Mike:Some might argue that this makes it impossible to prove that sky daddies exist. This is ofcourse nonsense. If you could get a bit of your sky daddy and put it into a test tube, carry out an experiment to show that this is a being who can control the universe called Jebus then i would admit that im wrong straight away.

Me: God is immaterial. We cannot "observe" him via experiments.

Mike:Using xian logic then wed need to say fairies and pink unicorns exist etc etc

Me: no we wouldn't. We xians belive there is evidence for our faith. There is none for fairies or pink unicorns.

Mike: Heres a challenge to xians, without using the bible and only using stuff which i can personally see and touch or smell show that your stupid religion is true.

Me: Heres a challenge to you- stop insulting our belief if you hope to get a good response.

Mike: And heres another thing. Science has given us toasters, computers, planes and chocolate pudding, what has religion given us?

Me: Many christians have given us science. It also gives people a purpose, comfort to millions, inspires charities and outreach. Without religion we wouldn't have the abolotion of slavery, the civil rights movement, alcholics anonymous ect.

And if it wasn't for religion then my friend would've commited suicide.

So, why not have some respect for my beliefs, huh? Seeing how without them, my mate would be in his grave with undertakers stitches in his wrists?

Its easy to be the smartass skeptic on the web, but when you really get down to it, beyond everything, you should realises that maybe the world would be a worse off place without Christianity. and, fair enough you don't believe it. But stop wasting your time trying to undermine it so childishly.

If you were up for a real discussion, i'd be happy enough to talk to you.

But no, you seem happy enough to fling dirt, all the while unaware of the pain religion has healed.

Nick said...

Can science empirically verify that the senses give us a valid picture of the world?

After all, if all we have is sense-perception, how can we prove the validity of sense-perception?

Anonymous said...

Mike said:

"Heres a challenge to xians, without using the bible and only using stuff which i can personally see and touch or smell show that your stupid religion is true."


Mike,

I'm still waiting for you to accomplish our challenges.

johnny

FiFi said...

Spacefoetus said:
"no we wouldn't. We xians belive there is evidence for our faith. There is none for fairies or pink unicorns."
There's actually more evidence for fairies and pink unicorns. There are photographs of fairies. Okay so they were faked, but who's to say the same isn't true of the bible?

And SF, don't give us that emotional blackmail cr@p about your mate not being alive without god. I have extensive experience of psychological illnesses having nursed the mentally ill, and experienced depression myself. It was a belief in god that gave me my depression (or rather, the outlook on the world it gave me) so don't talk cr@p your whole life. When I looked after mentall ill people in hospital, one common trait amongst them was a Christian faith. I.e. they were delusional. That's not just me being insulting, it was a medical diagnosis. But I guess you guys would say they'd been possessed by the devil.]

Really though, you should climb down off your high horses before you fall off, cos its a long way down and you might get hurt.


Finally, chaotic void again spouting more rubbish:
"Riddle me this, Mikey...
-What reason does Science give us for Existence?
-What evidence do we have that the Natural and Supernatural are Dichotomized?"

Science recognises that there is no 'divine purpose' to our inhabiting this planet. We are here because the conditions were right and we evolved that way. Natural selection is anything but a game of chance, its a finely tuned system of adaptation to one's surroundings. Survival of the fittest, meaning fittest for purpose in that environment. Which is why polar bears thrive in the artic (apart from since the ice caps have been melting - what's God's grand purpose there, huh?) but we would freeze to death without man-made special equipment. We didn't evolve to be in that environment so would quickly die in it. So quite simply, we exist because our Earth provides the right conditions for us to exist. Nothing more and nothing less. If you need a sky-daddy to keep your chin up, you probably have quite deep self-esteem issues and need some therapy. Again, opinion not insult!

Regardign the second point there, we have PLENTY of evidence of the natural and of how it works. We can say pretty confidently the how why and wherefore of reproduction, life on earth etc, its just that it doesn't fit with the Christian view of a divine purpose.

God has a plan!! Don't question him!!! It is a sin to test the lord your god!!!

Hmmm, sounds to me like 'shut up and stop asking difficult questions!'

lilpixieofterror said...

There's actually more evidence for fairies and pink unicorns. There are photographs of fairies. Okay so they were faked, but who's to say the same isn't true of the bible?

Ok, you say there is more evidence for them yet you admit in the same paragraph that they are fake pictures? HAHA! You're not very bright are you, if there is more evidence for fairies and pink unicorns why do you go on to admit all the pictures are faked? Are you really this stupid in real life?

And SF, don't give us that emotional blackmail cr@p about your mate not being alive without god. I have extensive experience of psychological illnesses having nursed the mentally ill, and experienced depression myself. It was a belief in god that gave me my depression (or rather, the outlook on the world it gave me) so don't talk cr@p your whole life.

So you are emotionally driven and your claims about your beliefs in atheism being built upon logic and science are nothing but an illusion to dope the less observant? Too bad that I do not let my emotions guide me like you do, it seems that it makes you use dumb reasoning and silly logic all the way though. As I'll show below.

When I looked after mentall ill people in hospital, one common trait amongst them was a Christian faith.

Could it be because Christianity is the most numerous religion in the world and in the US and therefore there is going to be a higher percentage of the population in any branch that are Christians? Can you show me a real doctor with a degree in psychology that says that religion causes mental insanity? I've never read or heard that anywhere, as far as I have heard... it has more to do with the person then with the beliefs. Like I said though, you're emotionally driven so you'll find any excuse, no matter how illogical, to wrap your emotional reasons with rational ones.

I.e. they were delusional. That's not just me being insulting, it was a medical diagnosis. But I guess you guys would say they'd been possessed by the devil.

Do you just say the stupidest thing that comes to your mind first? Who said anything about them being possessed by the devil? Second, isn't delusional a common mental illness that is not limited to just Christians, but everybody (you being one example of that)? Please keep with the emotional reasons wrapped up in rational ones, it's quite amusing.

Really though, you should climb down off your high horses before you fall off, cos its a long way down and you might get hurt.

Pot... meet kettle. This comes from the same person who uses emotionalism to make her cases and searches for excuses, any excuse to hold onto her doubt. You're a real comedian too bad though you are being serious. I guess you enjoy making a fool of yourself, eh?

I'll let Chaotic Void answer your response to him, he should have some entertainment too. However; I found the comment below to be rather dumb:

God has a plan!! Don't question him!!! It is a sin to test the lord your god!!!

If you'd actually pick up some books on the topic and read about the temptation of Jesus you'll discover the entire point of that encounter. The devil is telling him to jump off the roof of the temple and Jesus' response is showing that he isn't there for showmanship, and to dazzle people with grand miracles of display, but to bring people closer to the Lord though wisdom and teaching. Did you understand that or do I need to dim it down for you?

Chaotic Void said...

Fifi the French Poodle:
Science recognises that there is no 'divine purpose' to our inhabiting this planet.

Chaotic Void:
Then again, you’re forgetting one thing… Science isn’t an all-knowing oracle.

Fifi the French Poodle:
Which is why polar bears thrive in the artic (apart from since the ice caps have been melting - what's God's grand purpose there, huh?)

Chaotic Void:
In regards to the parenthesized statement, since that's the only thing I really object to, you’re making a typical error. You’re saying it is God’s fault for letting US cause global warming. It isn’t. It’s our fault.

Fifi the French Poodle:
So quite simply, we exist because our Earth provides the right conditions for us to exist. Nothing more and nothing less. If you need a sky-daddy to keep your chin up, you probably have quite deep self-esteem issues and need some therapy. Again, opinion not insult!

Chaotic Void:
“The Conditions are right for us to live, therefore God does not exist”? That’s a bit of a non-sequitor; there’s nothing that disproves even the possibility of the existence of a God in that paragraph of yours.

Fifi the French Poodle:
Regarding the second point there, we have PLENTY of evidence of the natural and of how it works. We can say pretty confidently the how why and wherefore of reproduction, life on earth etc, its just that it doesn't fit with the Christian view of a divine purpose.

Chaotic Void:
How does knowledge of reproduction and living on the earth rule out God’s existence? I’d love to see you back that up.

Fifi the French Poodle:
God has a plan!! Don't question him!!! It is a sin to test the lord your god!!!

Hmmm, sounds to me like 'shut up and stop asking difficult questions!'

Chaotic Void:
Sure, there’s Christians who say that sort of thing [Don't question authority]. But then again, it’s actually contrary to scripture [Prove all Things; Hold fast to that which is good]. So down the Crapper that common Atheist Canard goes!

Anonymous said...

Fifi said:
...them was a Christian faith. I.e. they were delusional. That's not just me being insulting, it was a medical diagnosis. But I guess you guys would say they'd been possessed by the devil.]


Ok, you weren't being insulting at all, or only the part before your claim?


Science recognises that there is no 'divine purpose' to our inhabiting this planet. We are here because the conditions were right and we evolved that way. Natural selection is anything but a game of chance, its a finely tuned system of adaptation to one's surroundings.

Now that is funny...
Science makes no claims about the supernatural because it deals only WITH the natural.
That's a whole heap'n help'n of Blind Faith there Fifi.... you say,
1."conditions were right"
2."Natural selection is anything but a game of chance,"
3."its a finely tuned system"

wake up... natural origins is a game of chance. evolution is a game of chance.
Even your "finely tuned system" is a game of chance, if there is no Creator that has a personal interest in the outcome.

Survival of the fittest, meaning fittest for purpose in that environment. Which is why polar bears thrive in the artic (apart from since the ice caps have been melting - what's God's grand purpose there, huh?) but we would freeze to death without man-made special equipment.

Good grief, look who's riled now.

Are you really that blind? Don't you see that the argument you're trying to make, works either way.
here, i'll show you, and then you can see that it's a waste of time to go this route..

God designed the critters to have the means necessary to thrive in their environments.. Which is why polar bears thrive in the artic ........ but we would freeze to death without man-made special equipment. Since God designed us with the ability to think our way through difficult situations.

OK... next..

If you need a sky-daddy to keep your chin up, you probably have quite deep self-esteem issues and need some therapy. Again, opinion not insult!

You have an interesting definition of opinion vs. insult. Right away you go on the defensive, when you say anything that could remotely be thought of as insult.

Can i play your game too??

It is my opinion that you have, (in your own words) "quite deep self-esteem issues and need some therapy."

However, you voice your opinion based on our belief in God, but i'm basing my opinion of you, on something you shared with us..
that you had once been in depression.

Now, that was foolish of me, yes?
How about we both drop the games, and deal with what is presented or discussed.


I haven't looked yet, but i am guessing Chaotic has or will correct you on the "-What evidence do we have that the Natural and Supernatural are Dichotomized?"
But i suggest you re-read what was said, because your answer shows that his point went over your head.

johnny-Anon-i saw it in a nacho-xtreem