Tuesday, 17 March 2009

I have a long way to go.

I came accross this list to determne if you are a hardcore atheist here.

Lets see how I do.

1. Participated in the Blasphemy Challenge.
No as i dont have a webcam.
2. Met at least one of the “Four Horsemen” (Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris) in person.
Not yet. Meeting one of them would be my dream come true. I really hope that one day I will get to meet one of them.
3. Created an atheist blog.
Your reading it
4. Used the Flying Spaghetti Monster in a religious debate with someone.
Im pretty sure i have. If anyone thinks i havent then ill have to blog about it next.
5. Gotten offended when someone called you an agnostic.
Yes. Xians dont understand the difference between saying we dont know what caused the big bang and agnosticism.
6. Been unable to watch Growing Pains reruns because of Kirk Cameron.
Never seen growing pains.
7. Own more Bibles than most Christians you know.
Most xians dont own a bible and so one i got three means i do.
8. Have at least one Bible with your personal annotations regarding contradictions, disturbing parts, etc.
I have the skepticks annotated bible bookmarked on firefox. Does that count?
9. Have come out as an atheist to your family.
Oh yes. Although they are atheists to.
10. Attended a campus or off-campus atheist gathering.
No, not yet. There arent any near where i live that im aware of.
11. Are a member of an organized atheist/Humanist/etc. organization.
12. Had a Humanist wedding ceremony.
No.
13. Donated money to an atheist organization.
I gave money to the atheist bus campaign
14. Have a bookshelf dedicated solely to Richard Dawkins.
Sort of. The god delusion takes pride of place on my bookshelf.
15. Lost the friendship of someone you know because of your non-theism.
I dont start friendships with xians.
16. Tried to argue or have a discussion with someone who stopped you on the street to proselytize.
Yes. I started telling them all about mithras. They told me not to believe everything i read on the internet and i told them not to believe everything they read in the bible and quickly walked of.
17. Had to hide your atheist beliefs on a first date because you didn’t want to scare him/her away.
No.
18. Own a stockpile of atheist paraphernalia (bumper stickers, buttons, shirts, etc).
I own a darwin fish bumper sticker.
19. Attended a protest that involved religion.
No
20. Attended an atheist conference.
No
21. Subscribe to Pat Condell’s YouTube channel.
I dont tend to subscribe to channels however when im bored i will see if he has uploade another video
22. Started an atheist group in your area or school.
No. I dont think anyone would join it.
23. Successfully “de-converted” someone to atheism.
No, however i think ive caused some xians some sleepless nights.
24. Have already made plans to donate your body to science after you die.
Yes
25. Told someone you’re an atheist only because you wanted to see the person’s reaction.
Yeah, i love annoying xians.
26. Had to think twice before screaming “Oh God!” during sex. Or you said something else in its place.
pass
27. Lost a job because of your atheism.
no.
28. Formed a bond with someone specifically because of your mutual atheism (meeting this person at a local gathering or conference doesn’t count).
I have friends who are atheists.
29. Have crossed “In God We Trust” off of — or put a pro-church-state-separation stamp on — dollar bills.
No - i never thought of that one
30. Refused to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
no. i cant be bothered to get into trouble
31. Said “Gesundheit!” (or nothing at all) after someone sneezed because you didn’t want to say “Bless you!”
I dont tend to say anything if someone sneezes.
32. Have ever chosen not to clasp your hands together out of fear someone might think you’re praying.
I never thought of that. I better be careful in the future.
33. Have turned on Christian TV because you needed something entertaining to watch.
no - even for comedy value xian v is not worth watching.
34. Are a 2nd or 3rd (or more) generation atheist.
i think so. not sure.
35. Have “atheism” listed on your Facebook or dating profile — and not a euphemistic variant.
I have a-fairyist
36. Attended an atheist’s funeral (i.e. a non-religious service).
no
37. Subscribe to an freethought magazine (e.g. Free Inquiry, Skeptic)
I tend to read stuff online for free
38. Have been interviewed by a reporter because of your atheism.
not yet. Maybe when my blog takes of.
39. Written a letter-to-the-editor about an issue related to your non-belief in God.
various times.
40. Gave a friend or acquaintance a New Atheist book as a gift.
Yes. I have given the god delusion to people as presents on numerous occasions.
41. Wear pro-atheist clothing in public.
Oh yes. I have a big A tshirt.
42. Have invited Mormons/Jehovah’s Witnesses into your house specifically because you wanted to argue with them.
yes. they normally end up leaving on there own accord.
43. Have been physically threatened (or beaten up) because you didn’t believe in God.
no. Althoug people are nasty to me all the time because im an athest. Take all the screwball awards ive recieved for example
44. Receive Google Alerts on “atheism” (or variants).
i dont use google alerts.
45. Received fewer Christmas presents than expected because people assumed you didn’t celebrate it.
I dont know how many id recieve if i wasnt an atheist.
46. Visited The Creation Museum or saw Ben Stein’s Expelled just so you could keep tabs on the “enemy.”
That rubbish?
47. Refuse to tell anyone what your “sign” is… because it doesn’t matter at all.
yes.
48. Are on a mailing list for a Christian organization just so you can see what they’re up to…
I keep gettinf spammed by theology web whenever a thread i post on is updated.
49. Have kept your eyes open while you watched others around you pray.
i try to avoid prayer.
50. Avoid even Unitarian churches because they’re too close to religion for you.
I avoid all kinds of churches.


So lets see how i did. i recond i scored around 21. According to the website that means 'You are an atheist, but babies aren’t running away from you. Yet.'

9 comments:

johnny said...

Umm, Mike, i think that "spam by theology web whenever a thread i post on is updated" is because of something in your tweb profile options... you can turn it off if you don't want to be notified.


Also, i'm glad to see that atheism is now thinking of itself as a religion.... with all those "commandments" ;) lol just teasing.

johnny

FiFi said...

Johnny, not everybody who has a set of rules or standards that they live by (that's mostly everybody, btw) attributes those standards to a religion.

Most people have empathy and can live an honest and decent life on that.

I'm wondering - do you think people need religion to be moral?

johnny said...

First FiFi, i was joking around, as indicated by the wink emoticon and by the laugh out loud (lol) and by the "just teasing".


Second, no, i do not think that religion is needed to be moral.
God has given morallity to all (in Christian speak, that would be 'written it on our hearts').

His Word says that even the unbeliever is a law unto themselves.

But what i do contend is that the atheist has no justification for morals... and with no justification it boils down to being like a preferrence to a particular soup or candy bar... it's insignificant.

johnny

FiFi said...

"But what i do contend is that the atheist has no justification for morals... and with no justification it boils down to being like a preferrence to a particular soup or candy bar... it's insignificant."

Then I refer you to a previous answer that you don't understand natural selection.

Before religion darkened humanity's door, we still had communities who got along, worked together and progressed.

In fact, if you watch a group of social animals, you'll see that they also have this capability. Look at apes, meerkats, wolves, seals, to name but a few of the thousands of species who manage to prosper in their environment, all without the help of god, or a soul (not that we have either of these things ourselves, except in the sense of their perceptions of the world).

johnny said...

FiFi said,

In fact, if you watch a group of social animals, you'll see that they also have this capability. Look at apes, meerkats, wolves, seals, to name but a few of the thousands of species who manage to prosper in their environment, all without the help of god, or a soul (not that we have either of these things ourselves, except in the sense of their perceptions of the world).

I'm not sure about seals, but apes, meerkats and wolves steal (food) from each other.

FiFi, like i said, "But what i do contend is that the atheist has no justification for morals... and with no justification it boils down to being like a preferrence to a particular soup or candy bar... it's insignificant."

johnny

FiFi said...

"I'm not sure about seals, but apes, meerkats and wolves steal (food) from each other"

Johnny, don't be so fekkin naive. SO DO HUMANS!!! Even humans with religion.

So you say I have no justification for my morals?? Oh how you insult me, but I'll not let that get to me. The fact is, I want to survive. Therefore, I want my species to survive. To survive one must co-operate with one's community, which means not stealing from others in my community, not killing others in my community who contribute to said community, and who said community care about. I could write a book about atheist morality, but I won't do that here. But believe that I have higher morality than many christians I've known who think they can behave like bastards all week, say sorry on a Sunday and feel all superior about it. In fact, Christians have a free ticket to do what the hell they like and feel justified in doing so because they've said sorry to god about it. Idiots.

If you really believe atheists have no morality then you're a bigger fool than you come across. You're wrong. FACT.

Atheism has led to tolerance to other social groups, and atheism is what has made Britain what it is today. Its not perfect (nowhere is), but I believe its the best place in the world to live at the moment (possible exception of New Zealand). In the UK you can have your own say, and not be persecuted or prosecuted for your views. You can be gay and be able to tell your friends about it rather than live in shame for your so-called 'sin'.

Why then, in America, which has a FAR HIGHER christian population than the UK, is the murder rate several hundred times that of any other country in the world? (Watch Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine) Where do all these murderers get their morality from? Or will you just say that they can't really be christians? Who are you to judge that?!

So do you have some idea now what I have against religion? If not, let me know and I'll explain a little further.

johnny said...

"Johnny, don't be so fekkin naive. SO DO HUMANS!!! Even humans with religion."

I never said that humans do not steal. Neither did i say that humans with religion do not steal.
And again, i did not say that Christians are without sin.

What i did say is that animals do not have morality, and if God does not exist, the morality that man has, is simply a label... an insignificant concept that is equal to a like or a dislike of vanilla ice cream.

So you say I have no justification for my morals?? Oh how you insult me, but I'll not let that get to me.

How is this an insult? If there is no God, there is no moral good or bad...things just 'are'.

The fact is, I want to survive.

And some people don't. Please justifiy the difference.

Therefore, I want my species to survive.

meh... the nazi's wanted the perfect race. The muslim's want all to surrender (to Allah). Heaven's Gate wanted a comet ride...

To survive one must co-operate with one's community,

I'll let you in on a little known secret... the survival you speak of, is only temporary.

which means not stealing from others in my community,

or being really good at it, and not getting caught....

... but that beg's the question, FiFi-- if they haven't gotten caught, and they do what they want, did they actually do anything immoral?

not killing others in my community who contribute to said community,

Sorry, but this don't cut it..
Your statement implies that killing others would be immoral... what about the animals that kill members of their own community? You honestly can't be saying that those animals are immoral.

and who said community care about.

no, no, no. Until there is a justification of morals, there can hardly be a justification of caring.
Remember, the naturalist worldview should be limited to chemical reactions.

I could write a book about atheist morality, but I won't do that here.

Again, i did not say that the atheist has no morals, but rather, the atheist does not have a justification that morals exist.

But believe that I have higher morality than many christians

That's very possible... maybe even probable. However, the True Christian (tm) is aware that he is a sinner, and has trust that Jesus the Christ has paid for those sins.

I've known who think they can behave like bastards all week, say sorry on a Sunday and feel all superior about it. In fact, Christians have a free ticket to do what the hell they like and feel justified in doing so because they've said sorry to god about it. Idiots.

we're all in a growth process. Some are, like you say, thinking they "have a free ticket"... the true Christian will eventually realise this as false understanding (maybe even many times).

If you really believe atheists have no morality then you're a bigger fool than you come across. You're wrong. FACT.

I repeat the repetition again and again... i am not saying that the atheist has no morals.

Atheism has led to tolerance to other social groups,

Give justification that tolerance is good at all times and all places.

In fact, if tolerance is so good (i'm letting it slide that this is a smuggled in, unjustified moral) then why stop at only tolerance of social groups? If tolerance is so good, start giving tolerance to criminals... throw the laws away.


and atheism is what has made Britain what it is today. Its not perfect (nowhere is), but I believe its the best place in the world to live at the moment (possible exception of New Zealand).

Pepsi or Coke? Vanilla ice cream or chocolate?
America's a pretty good place to live too.

However, as i've seen Christian values go downhill in my lifetime, it is my opinion that life in America is not as good as when i was a kid... now, granted, that could very well be the difference of looking at life from kid's eyes vs. an adult's eyes.

In the UK you can have your own say, and not be persecuted or prosecuted for your views.

hmmm... so what you are saying is that, if you disagreed with what your Parliment declared, and you publically threatened to kill them, you would not be procecuted? I mean, what better way to say you disagree, than using an uzi on some government officials?

FiFi, i realise that this is not the extreme that you mean, but it is the spirit of your thought, taken to an extreme end... but then again, if morals have no justification, then what's to say that an action such as the above, is actually morally wrong?... Just remove the bits of society that disagree and the society that is left over will be much more in agreement.. that, or no one would dare disagree.

You can be gay and be able to tell your friends about it rather than live in shame for your so-called 'sin'.

hmmm... are you saying that telling someone that "homosexuality is immoral", is an immoral behavior?

Where is the justification that makes being gay, ok, but telling someone it's not ok, is not ok?

If there is no transcendent moral law, then both are arbitrary preferences.

Why then, in America, which has a FAR HIGHER christian population than the UK, is the murder rate several hundred times that of any other country in the world? (Watch Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine)

What's that you keep telling ME about sources?

How many of the murderers were Christians? How many murderers were atheists? How many murderers were sinful humans?

Where do all these murderers get their morality from?

Rebellion and/ or rejection of God.

Or will you just say that they can't really be christians? Who are you to judge that?!

No, i can't say that they are not True Christians (tm). But i can say that they were not putting their trust in the Lord (if it was, indeed, Christians that were the murderers... well, actually, either way).

So do you have some idea now what I have against religion? If not, let me know and I'll explain a little further.

Let's see...

Religions claim that there are morally good things and morally bad things.
Religions claim people do bad things to other people.
Religions claim that there is "hell to pay" for doing bad things to other people.
Religions claim that there are ways of restitution and some form of reconcilliation.

Christianity teaches that no human can live a perfectly good life, and that Christ lived that perfect life for us, died for payment of our sins, rose again and promised that we too, are debt free if we trust in Christ.

Yep, i think i can see it now, FiFi.. what you have against religion is that atheism can't really determine morally right and morally wrong, but you know it actually exists.

God Bless,
johnny

FiFi said...

Johnny, you're so messed up int he head its going to take a better person than me to unravel you. I really hope that one day you get unravelled.

And for the record, no, you've not understood a word I've said, and I fear there's nothing I can say that will change that.

johnny said...

I think this was called:

The Creed of the Modern Thinker by Steve Turner (i think it goes something like this..)


We believe in Marx, Freud and Darwin.
We believe everything is OK
as long as you don't hurt anyone,
to the best of your definition of hurt,
and to the best of your knowledge.

We believe in sex before during
and after marriage.
We believe in the therapy of sin.
We believe that adultery is fun.
We believe that sodomy's OK.
We believe that taboos are taboo.

We believe that everything's getting better
despite evidence to the contrary.
The evidence must be investigated.
You can prove anything with evidence.

We believe there's something in horoscopes,
UFO's and bent spoons;
Jesus was a good man just like Buddha
Mohammed and ourselves.
He was a good moral teacher although we think
his good morals were bad.

We believe that all religions are basically the same –
at least the one that we read were.
They all believe in love and goodness.
They only differ on matters of
creation , sin, heaven, hell, God, and salvation.

We believe that after death comes The Nothing
because when you ask the dead what happens
they say Nothing.
If death is not the end, if the dead have lied,
then it's compulsory heaven for all
excepting perhaps
Hitler, Stalin, and Genghis Khan.

We believe in Masters & Johnson.
What's selected is average.
What's average is normal.
What's normal is good.

We believe in total disarmament.
We believe there are direct links between
warfare and bloodshed.
Americans should beat their guns into tractors
and the Russians would be sure to follow.

We believe that man is essentially good.
It's only his behavior that lets him down.
This is the fault of society.
Society is the fault of conditions.
Conditions are the fault of society.

We believe that each man must find the truth that
is right for him.
Reality will adapt accordingly.
The universe will readjust.
History will alter.
We believe that there is no absolute truth
excepting the truth
that there is no absolute truth.

We believe in the rejection of creeds,
and the flowering of individual thought.


If chance be
the Father of all flesh,
disaster is his rainbow in the sky,
and when you hear

State of Emergency!
Sniper Kills Ten!
Troops on Rampage!
Youths go Looting!
Bomb Blasts School!

It is but the sound of man
worshiping his maker.


johnny